@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
I put him on permanent ignore.
Ditto.
There's just a pathetic interest in how long it takes him to come out.
I'd bet page 2.
And it's hard to avoid others' responses.
Hopefully, this poor young woman will be able to give some real insights into how these predators influence their victims.
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
It's likely one of hawk's little fantasies.....at the very least....no wonder he wants to promulgate the notion that she was a willing participant.
Probably this man liberated her from society's barring of the full flowering of her sexuality, didn't it Hawk?
he's a hero to you, isn't he?
Sure. She really wanted this, but didn't
know she wanted it. Right, Hawk?
@DrewDad,
Quote:Sure. She really wanted this, but didn't know she wanted it. Right, Hawk?
she did not want to leave, that much we know. You should look into the case of Mary Letourneau up here in Washington, a teacher who abused a boy (and purposefully got herself knocked-up) and was caught. She was sent to prison, the kid was not allowed to contact her for years, but as soon as the time was up (and she was out of prison) he moved in with her. They are legally married now, and have had more kids I think.
If Alissa was allowed, she would move in with this guy right now, no matter what obstacles were put in her way. He is going to die in prison, so she will not get what she wants, which will be a source of pain for her and her kids.
I guess the children have the right
to visit their dad in prison, if thay wanna.
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:I guess the children have the right
to visit their dad in prison, if thay wanna.
Highly unlikely. Abusers are not generally allowed contact with their victims. Even when abuse is unproven this is so. Texas did not allow the fathers' contact with the FLDS kids after the state had snatched them up, mothers in theory were allowed but the state made the process as difficult for the mothers as possible.
These women will be told that they must start their new lives, or in the case of Alissa told that she must restart her old life, as impossible as that is. All three women are now products of the abuse, it is part of who they are, but they (and we) are supposed to ignore that little fact.
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:I guess the children have the right
to visit their dad in prison, if thay wanna.
Highly unlikely. Abusers are not generally allowed contact with their victims.
I meant a natural right, or a moral right.
I have not inspected the prison rules concerning visits;
hence, I cannot interpret them.
It puts an interesting twist on things.
David
@OmSigDAVID,
I read that the kids have been allowed some phone contact with their father, but I would not expect that to continue past what is being called the "transitional period".
@dlowan,
One of the scary things about all this is how many other kids are in Jaycee's position?
I mean, there's the awful Austrian case...and this....if people can get away with this for decades, it can't really be all that hard, right?
If kids can be influenced in the way Jaycee clearly was....it's not rocket science.
What heartens me is to see alert people (in this case police officers) going the extra yards and following up concerns.
A terribly disturbed man, who kidnapped and sexually assaulted a little girl....from her own home at night....just a street away from where I live, was caught when, in another state, a supermarket security guard saw him sidle up to a little girl, when her mother's back was turned, and hug her, and move away quickly.
The guard was concerned and called the man's description into police, while covertly keeping him in sight. Alert police checked with descriptions of wanted sexual offenders, and took the guy in for questioning while he was still roaming the supermarket.
Initially, the offender was relieved, confessed, said he was working on another little girl, and felt he might well have murdered her...ie he was escalating.
Then he saw a lawyer...but that's another story. He is off the streets, and I hope he is getting the help he needs.
That's just one example I know about.
Nobody wants vigilantes or hysteria, but I can tell you, when I am in situations where kids are around, I find myself keeping an eye out for places I know paedophiles have discovered are good places for offending in public, and I am on alert for something amiss.
It's not conscious, really...it's just like a scanner. I don't have an especially good one, but I know I wouldn't hesitate to call it in, if my beeper went off.
Congratulations to those two Californian Police Officers.
May there be more of them.
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:
Whenever I hear things like this I wonder how many other victims have yet to found.
I wonder how many people in the past were similarly abused
and no one ever rescued them. I just cannot understand the type
of mental illness that would propel someone to this cruel and
delusional behavior or how the victims can go on to lead anything
we would consider a normal life.
Was there another one a few months ago,
wherein the victim just walked away, after the kidnapper simply died of old age ?
`
Does a parent have a moral obligation
to prepare his child to defend himself or herself from predatory violence ?
Is failure to do so negligence ?
David
@dlowan,
Good post. Yeah, I have a scanner as well.
@sozobe,
Everyone has a scanner, but few people listen to theirs. Look at all the people who say about this guy, "I felt something was wrong, but didn't want to get involved."
Everyone should read
The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker. It's about paying attention to your intuition, and being able to identify danger.
This story is too sad. This girl's life has been stolen. And even though she's been rescued now, there's no way to get it back.
And due to this Stockholm Syndrome it's not just her physical life which was stolen, but also her entire viewpoint on life. She adapted to the conditions around her as a necessity of survival, and now those adapted viewpoints have become reality for her.
After so many years (especially after being abducted at such a young age), I don't know if a person is even capable of recovering from such psychological formation/abuse. A person might not even want to recover, because so much of the past would have to be re-viewed as painful abuse rather than the adapted viewpoint of "a normal life" (which is less painful to think about). It might be psychologically easier not to try to reform the perspective.
Very sad.
For anybody stupid enough to think that Garrido is deserving of any consideration, here is the story of another of his victims:
(CNN) -- Katie Callaway Hall trembled for four hours when she heard Phillip Garrido was arrested.
Katie Callaway Hall said she wanted to scream when she heard that Phillio Garrido kidnapped someone else.
1 of 4 His name sent a flurry of emotion running through her mind.
"I screamed," she told CNN's Larry King on Monday night. "I started screaming 'Oh my god, Oh my god, it's him.' "
She has thought about him every day since November 22, 1976 when he asked her for a ride at a supermarket in California, before handcuffing her, binding her and taking her to a mini-warehouse in Reno, Nevada, where he raped her.
Garrido was convicted for kidnapping and raping Hall, but was released after serving just over 10 years of a 50-year sentence. He was labeled a sex offender and put on lifetime parole.
"In many ways, the capture of Phillip Garrido has closed a chapter in my life," Hall wrote for a Larry King blog. "I don't have to hide anymore. I don't have to live every day of my life wondering if he is looking for me. I am finally free from the fear I have lived with since the day I learned he was paroled." Read what Hall wrote on the blog
Garrido and his wife Nancy were charged last week with crimes relating to the abduction of 11-year-old Jaycee Lee Dugard in 1991 and her captivity in a hidden shed-and-tent compound in the couple's backyard in Antioch, California.
"With all the joy I should feel, I want to scream from the depths of my soul," she said. "Scream because my fears turned out to be justified -- he struck again."
While Hall has tried to suppress some of the memories of what happened to her that night, Garrido's arrest took her mind back to that night in November.
"A man tapped on my window and asked for a ride," she said. "I agreed."
When she stopped the car to drop him off, Garrido took the keys out of the ignition, according to court documents from Garrido's appeal in the case.
Garrido, then 25, "told [Hall] it wasn't intentional that he had taken her, but that it was her fault because she was attractive," according to the documents.
"Soon after, I was cuffed, bound, gagged, and taken to a warehouse," Hall told CNN.
She was kept in the 6 by 12-foot storage facility, which Hall remembers was stacked with half-opened boxes with China-type dishes inside.
Large, heavy carpets were hanging from the ceiling, spaced apart every few feet.
"It was like a maze," she said. "And in the back of the mini warehouse where he had me, he had it set up to keep someone for awhile."
"Most of the details about what happened to me after I entered that warehouse have been repressed."
She told Larry King that she feared for her life.
"I thought I was dead," she said.
Hall was held in the small storage facility for five hours before she heard a noise.
"My recollections begin around 3 a.m. Someone banged on the door. I remember thinking, 'Oh my God, his friends are coming,' " she said. "Garrido said, 'Do I have to tie you up or are you going to be good.' "
She told him she would be good, but she knew if it was the police banging outside, she was going to "have to try something."
"I barreled my way out of the warehouse completely naked. I could see the officer and Garrido standing there. They both looked at me like I was crazy," she said. "I couldn't see the officer's car. I thought 'Oh God, he's not a real cop.' My state of mind was such that I couldn't fully embrace what I was seeing. Finally, I saw his police car."
Garrido tried to tell the cop Hall was his girlfriend.
"I screamed, 'No I'm not -- help me, help me,' " she said.
"The officer told me to back in and put my clothes on. When I went inside, Garrido must have convinced the officer we were both on drugs, because he let Garrido go back into the building alone," Hall said. "I had already put some of my clothes on. Garrido came back in and begged me not to turn him in."
Half-dressed, Hall said she maneuvered passed him and asked the police to keep him away.
"They asked if I was brought there against my will," she said. "I told them I was, that he had handcuffed and bound me. An officer shined a light on my wrists, saw the sores from the handcuffs, and arrested Garrido."
Though Garrido was put behind bars for what he did, Hall said that night changed her life forever.
"For years, I walked around like a zombie," she said. "I had to tell everyone I met what had happened to me -- because I didn't feel like myself. It was as if I had to explain why I wasn't 'normal.' "
For her, that's the biggest pain Garrido put her though.
"I was a good person. I lived right, and treated others well," she said.
"He changed my life in an instant. I don't feel like I can ever be that person again. Being victimized is something that only a victim can understand. I hate that he did this to me, and I doubt I'll ever get over it."
Though the trauma of her kidnapping has stayed with her all of these years, Hall said she couldn't even begin to imagine the pain Garrido has caused Dugard and the two children she had with him.
"The only thing I can think of worse than what happened to me, is it happening to my child," she said. "I can't imagine what Jaycee is going through. He had me for 8 hours. He had her for 18 years.
"I was an adult, with instincts that helped me deal with the situation. She was a child. This is going to be with her for the rest of her life. I can only wish her the best."
@rosborne979,
Quote:This story is too sad. This girl's life has been stolen. And even though she's been rescued now, there's no way to get it back.
HUM, no. An abuser does not have the power to ruin a persons life, to steal their life. A victim can choose to stay a victim and allow this to happen, or alternately they can heal and end the abusers power over them. The abuse will forever be part of who these three women are though....they can never be normal. Expecting them to be normal, or worse trying to force them to be normal, is to re-abuse them. It happens all the time though, victims are re-abused by the clueless agents of the collective, by the system and by the quasi public saviour groups.
Why don't you go fondle your neighbor's grade school children, you sick ****.
@edgarblythe,
30+ years later and this woman has bearly healed at all. Too bad for her. A lot of victims do better at moving on, retaking control of their lives, learning to be happy.
@Setanta,
Only those of us who have walked this road can speak of it, it is a mystery to the rest of you folks .....one that scares the **** out of you.
Those who are just beginning to heal, or who have never healed, hate the message as well. They usually refuse to hear.
