DO WE LIVE IN A STUPID COUNTRY

@Merry Andrew,

Quote:

How are, say, Australians or Canadians or the voters of the UK any different from us poor Yanks in this regard? I don't see it.

Hey, leave us out of this. I see differences, but I'm sure as hell staying out of this debate. It's a can of worms.

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

I spent a good bit of time in the UK with friends and family, and do believe that the average person there is much more knowledgeable and sophisticated. For instance, when indirectly electing a prime minister, they look far beyond the person's personality and background, but consider who "his people" are; e. g., who would be in charge of finances, defense, etc.

Likely more a function of who your friends and family are than anything, I would imagine.....

I'd love to see real research which looked at how thoughtful and knowledgable people in different countries are re politics, the world in general, and their ability to critique propaganda.

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I don't know that American are becoming more stupid, but I do think they're becoming more lazy and spoiled -- in just about every way possible. We get our hard news from Rush Limbaugh and Jon Stewart, we pay diddly to support public education and then complain how bad the schools are, we want our medical practitioners to be perfect but do damn little to take care of ourselves, we shop at Walmart for inexpensive one-stop shopping without realizing (or caring) that the Walmart model has closed down all the competition around them and the small business owners are now Walmart employees instead of employers in the community. The list goes on and on...

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@aidan,

Did you consider that the Chinese, in the past 20 years, have made industrial and other advances in a tenth of the time that the USA has.

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@Advocate,

N0 , the Chinese didn't even enter my mind because the thread isn't about the stupidity of China as a country - the thread is about the stupidity of the US (or its people).

Evenso - China has been a recognized nationalized entity for millenia - do you not think it's coincidental that many of the industrial and technological advances in places like China and India have indeed occurred in the past twenty years AFTER America led the way in terms of industry and technology around the world?

I just don't think it's productive or accurate to say a country of people whose ancestors created and built the leading world power from what was an undeveloped wilderness 200 years ago, are genetically deficient in terms of intelligence.

As JPB says, Americans may have become spoiled and lazy and numbed to the facts of the world around them, but I don't believe it's because they don't have the genetic tools to see and learn. It's just become too easy not to, and they no longer have to. Everything is convenient and available now- precisely because their ancestors were so smart and industrious and capable.

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@Advocate,

OK, here's my response to the question about whether Americans are any more stupid than Australians, Canadians & the British:

First up, I think the title of this thread is all wrong. I don't believe for a minute that the whole of the US can be considered an especially "stupid country". I know this is not to be the case, from my own (fairly regular) scrutiny of US news & current issues commentary, including some contributions on this forum.
And I wouldn't use the term "stupid", either ... I prefer "willfully ignorant", for political or religious purposes, plus a handful of special interest protagonists, like elements of the gun lobby.
In a nutshell (from an outsider's observation), it seems to me that the "willfully ignorant" in the US seem to have a much bigger impact on the politics of that country compared to the willfully ignorant in other countries, like my own. Perhaps there are more of them, or they are more vocal, or more organized than their equivalents in other countries. Also they seem to receive more credence in the mainstream media. I cannot imagine Sarah Palin's "death panel" pronouncements being taken all that seriously in any other equivalent country, nor having the impact it apparently has had. That's a difference.

A few years ago in Oz we had our own, home-grown version of Sarah Palin in Oz. Pauline Hanson. You might have heard of her & she certainly had her devoted followers, but it was absolutely unthinkable that she could have been seriously considered an alternative leader to any existing prime minister of the country. Even by her followers. That's another big difference.

Every country has its "stupid" or willfully ignorant, but it seems to me (on the outside looking in) that the US variety exercises a far greater degree of influence. But it's completely unfair (& untrue) to brand the whole country as stupid because of this influence.

Here's a link to the article that opened this discussion:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/new-rule-smart-president_b_253996.html

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@aidan,

I think you are being a bit literal. I have not said that Americans are genetically inferior. Like you do, I feel there are a number of other reasons (laziness, culture, religious, political, etc.) that are making us act stupidly. It would be great for the country to have a dialogue on this issue.

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@msolga,

As they say, you hit the nail on the head. For various reasons, American people who are truly morons and demagogues manage to attain great influence, and even get elected to the highest offices. George W. Bush is a prime example. Based on his background and prior performance, there is no valid reason he should have been elected to two terms as president.

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The problem with Bill Mayers for me is that although I agree with him more often than; I still find him an obnoxious prick.

As far as his statement of Americans being stupid, we take pride in not being elitist intellectuals and in fact those types are looked down on and to be called an elitist is about the worse insult a conservative can think of, at least before Obama became president anyway.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

I have not said that Americans are genetically inferior.

No - you didn't say that. But I guess it's just that when people point out these inherent differences based on nationality - that's what sort of jumps into my mind- again - you didn't do that, but the implication is there in the title of the thread and in some of Maher's text.

People in America don't take advantage of the opportunity for education that's offered- that is true. But I've taught in both the US and the UK and I will tell you that the uneducated in the UK are just as lacking in smarts and knowledge as the uneducated in the US.

And the educated and knowledgable in the UK are not any more educated or knowledgable than their comparable counterparts in the US.

I think the difference is in those in the middle. And I think it's because of the media. In the UK, news in print and video covers a much broader swath of world news than does that in the US. It HAS to...the UK is a member of the European Union and phsysically or geographically much closer to and influenced by more continents (not only countries). That's not the case in the US and our media reflects that.
(I can't speak to the situation in Australia and Canada because I've never lived in either of those two countries or read their newspapers or watched their news).

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@Advocate,

Money and infulential people who control the media. Also public indifferance.

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Personally, I think the problem with the US is that anyone with citizenship and a pulse can vote. (In some precincts, it doesn't even require a pulse.)

Everyone ought to get a vote, but some votes should count more than others.

High School diploma? +1
Undergrad degree? +1
Ph.D.? +2
RN? +1
Military service? +1
Combat decoration? +2
Police/Fire/EMT? +1
Felony conviction? -2

People should be able to buy extra votes, too. $100,000 donation to the government? +1 (One year only)
$1,000,000 donation? +1 (lifetime)

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@aidan,

Quote:

People in America don't take advantage of the opportunity for education that's offered- that is true. But I've taught in both the US and the UK and I will tell you that the uneducated in the UK are just as lacking in smarts and knowledge as the uneducated in the US.

I'll also add that the soap operas in the UK are much less sophisticated than those produced in the US. I tried to watch one once and I couldn't even make it all the way through...
That right there should tell you something... Laughing

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@revel,

I would not wish our leaders to be elitist. However, I would hope and pray that they would be intellectuals.

in⋅tel⋅lec⋅tu⋅al /ˌɪntlˈɛktʃuəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [in-tl-ek-choo-uhl] Show IPA
Use intellectual in a Sentence
"adjective 1. appealing to or engaging the intellect: intellectual pursuits.
2. of or pertaining to the intellect or its use: intellectual powers.
3. possessing or showing intellect or mental capacity, esp. to a high degree: an intellectual person.
4. guided or developed by or relying on the intellect rather than upon emotions or feelings; rational.
5. characterized by or suggesting a predominance of intellect: an intellectual way of speaking.

"noun 6. a person of superior intellect.
7. a person who places a high value on or pursues things of interest to the intellect or the more complex forms and fields of knowledge, as aesthetic or philosophical matters, esp. on an abstract and general level.
8. an extremely rational person; a person who relies on intellect rather than on emotions or feelings.
9. a person professionally engaged in mental labor, as a writer or teacher.
10. intellectuals, Archaic. a. the mental faculties.
b. things pertaining to the intellect.

Unfortunately, we have, in the past, rarely elected intellectuals to high office. Thankfully, our present president is one.

This reminds me that George W. Bush had not visited Europe until he was elected president. Obviously, he had no intellectual curiosity.

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@DrewDad,

Just waiting -- with bated breath -- to see how many of the elitists on this thread will assume you're being serious. Smile

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Americans are descended from religious nutters and failed povs.

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Quote:

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Winston Churchill

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Quote:

The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes.
Winston Churchill

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@aidan,

aidan wrote:

No - you didn't say that. But I guess it's just that when people point out these inherent differences based on nationality - that's what sort of jumps into my mind- again - you didn't do that, but the implication is there in the title of the thread and in some of Maher's text.

People in America don't take advantage of the opportunity for education that's offered- that is true. But I've taught in both the US and the UK and I will tell you that the uneducated in the UK are just as lacking in smarts and knowledge as the uneducated in the US.

And the educated and knowledgable in the UK are not any more educated or knowledgable than their comparable counterparts in the US.

I think the difference is in those in the middle. And I think it's because of the media. In the UK, news in print and video covers a much broader swath of world news than does that in the US. It HAS to...the UK is a member of the European Union and phsysically or geographically much closer to and influenced by more continents (not only countries). That's not the case in the US and our media reflects that.
(I can't speak to the situation in Australia and Canada because I've never lived in either of those two countries or read their newspapers or watched their news).

I don't think Maher is indicating any sort of genetic inferiority at all.....he is a satirist and entertainer, really...he's just being a gadfly....all countries need gadflies.

I have no way at all of estimating whether more Americans get caught up in dumb agitprop and ridiculous beliefs than those in any other country.

I think American stupidity (used in this sense rather than as in vs intelligence) is both

a. More visible, because so much analysis of US is available around the world

b. More important, because of the dramatic consequences of US stupidity because of its power...eg Iraq, Vietnam etc.

than it is for most countries.

Personally, I am most aware of the stupidity in my own country.

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Quote:

DO WE LIVE IN A STUPID COUNTRY

Naa, its not so much that folks are stupid, but most don't give much of a **** about learning about the world around them. Sheer knowledge as a goal for self-discovery has been subordinated for knowledge as a tool for other things.

I think Americans have become much less curious about things than at earlier times in the history of the Republic. The increase in the material wealthy of the society is predicate to its intellectual degradation.

As go all cultures.

1 Reply

DO WE LIVE IN A STUPID COUNTRY

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