Jesus said I am the way.

I am in total agreement with you there, Dys. There is no reason that people can't get along together regardless of whether they are athiest, Christian, agnostic or anything else.

I hope that I had made it clear that I was referring to some atheists. I have no axe to grind with atheists in general. They have as much to their opinions as I do to mine. My only gripe (if we can call it that) is with those who argue and tear apart religionists for no other reason than that they are religionists.

No different than tearing you apart because you wear a cowboy hat or have long hair. People don't really do that. Do they?

It was nice to see a point of view that was presented calmly and without prejudice.

"No different than tearing you apart because you wear a cowboy hat or have long hair. People don't really do that. Do they?"



just me...

Thanks. I don't see it so much as standing up for my faith as enjoying a chance to defend what I believe when it is challenged. As I said, a belief or opinion isn't worth much if there is no way to defend it. And as for the less-than-pleasant Atheists, I bet you probably know as many really obnoxious Christians as I know--you know the type--probably the ones Panzade objects to--the ones who are in your face with their religion. The Atheists don't hold the monopoly on that stuff.

The opening post was "Jesus said I am the way". I believe that, but somehow I think he probably cares a whole lot more about our relationship with Him and how we live our lives than he cares about the nuts and bolts of theology.

And I appreciate you too.

But the "Atheists" that Dys speaks of I don't even think of as Atheist. I regard them as the nonreligious who can truly live and let live and aren't bothered the least bit that I am a Christian or somebody else is a Hindu or somebody else a Buddhist. Such people are usually really easy to be around.

Foxfyre,

You asked why I found "6000 years" the most significant aspect of the clip.

The answer is of course that such rubbish is the epitome of the fantasy world subscribed to by fundamentalists. More sophisticated "believers" like Polkinghorne and Cupit are embarassed by it.

Earlier in this thread, I explained as an atheist the possibility of a "spiritually transcendent" meaning to the words "I am the way", which can imply a deconstruction of "self". Either fundamentalists seem to be too stupid to understand the significance of that point, or they are so entrenched in their fairy tale dream that they resent being woken from it.

You mentioned that "you" do not subscribe to the fundamentalist view. That presumably means you "cherry pick" from religion the bits that make sense to you. If that is the case, consider an atheist to be one is has been far more selective with the cherries selecting only the "moral ones" as being palatable.

No, not for me at least.

No wonder religious people open the vast majority of the threads about spirituality and religion on A2K.



That's the only reason I sometimes make nasty comments.

Cannot stand their proselytizing..

Otherwise I live and let live..

The inference is that your Christian view is better than the agnostic mine.

Your patronizing is a bit lame, don't you see?




What a laugh!

Reversing roles, aren't you?

Sorry about the gap above.

Maybe the "American Dream" which applauds "self realization" accounts in part for the plethora of simplistic religious movements in the US. Perhaps these are a paliative for the unfulfilled dream, or repentence for "making it".

That's one possibility.

I would think that in most cases it's only "thought laziness"..

Most atheists are quietly living out their lives in the best manner they know just as do most religionists. mutual acknowledgment and deference seems to bring about the most pleasant results for persons of all or no faiths
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Had you perhap miss that large holes where two large buildings used to be in New York?

Or the interfering of the teaching of science in our classrooms?

Or the shooting of abortion doctors?

And on and one you can not leave insane people alone as they surely will not leave you alone.

Amen

silliness doesn't further your argument.

You seem to have your facts wrong. You will find that religious people are not the vast majority that start religious threads.

How do you know the religious persuation of those who start threads. Perhaps you could start by telling us the religious persuation of the author of this thread.

That's the thing with inference. The reader takes out of it what he wants. I have never indicated that I or any believer is better than anyone else. Be they agnostic, atheist or anything else.

Perhaps this is just a bit of an inferiority complex on your part. I don't know and I have not knowingly added to this.

Reversing roles? I don't think so. I am not attacking anybody. I am merely pointing out a fact.

I have no idea as to the religious leanings of Primotivo, I would say, in my opinion, he/she is a wacko.

I'm used to these rhetorical techniques, often used by Jehovah witnesses, belittling the target's personality.

As I said, they are just lame.

Obviously, you'll not be ashamed..

I just tell Jehovah witness that I am an atheist

Lying, then..

What silliness that people had a long history of murdering in the name of god or gods other humans including in Jone Town their own kids?

If the Fundamentalist presumes the Bible to the the literal word of God, which Fundamenalists do believe, and that requires them to believe in the 6000-year time span, how is that any sillier than your presumption of what is a 'deconstruction of self' or that your apparent conclusion that "I am the way" is a "fundamentalist" view? And how is selecting only the negative parts of Christian history, the less plausible points of Christian belief while ignoring the postive contributions of Christianity to human history not 'cherry picking'? And how is ignoring those Christian claims that can be supported by historical, archeological, and geological evidence not 'cherry picking'?

Do you, as an Atheist, agree with every single point of view of every other Atheist? Do you all think and walk and proclaim in lockstep precision with no variations in nuance, conceptualization, theory, process, or acceptance of what is and what is not fact? No Atheist ever got it wrong, believed something really silly that is not true, was brainwashed or convinced into a conviction that could not be supported or adopted a point of view just because it was comfortable? Is there a settled manifesto out there somewhere listing everything that an Athiest must believe and must not believe in order for Atheism to be a credible doctrine?

Think about these points and tell me you are prepared to say 'yes' to any one of them.

And then presume to tell me that Atheism is somehow superior to Christianity based purely on your 'cherry picking' or 'silly beliefs' theory.

Then look to the driving forces behind human existence that have contributed the most to the betterment of humankind. Point me to the great universities founded by Athesists, the hospitals they have built, the great cities they have settled, the countries they have conquered that became peaceful, prosperous places, the thrift shops they run, the soup kitchens they man, the homeless shelters they provide, the food pantries they organize, the leper colonies they staff, the orphanages they established to take in parentless, abused, and savaged children of the world. Christians can point to many and many of those have been accomplished by some of the most fundamentalist, narrow minded, 'silly' Christians that you seem to so despise.

Because I had an interest and opportunity to devote a substantial chunk of my life to study and exploration of Christian history, belief, and practice (as well as that of all the other more prevalent world religions), I do have a different perspective that some, probably many, maybe most, maybe all other Christians. It is not 'cherry picking' however when I don't subscribe to the 6,000 year timeline while another devout, believing Christian ministering to battered children or lepers or AIDS victims in the last stages of their illness does believe that.

Who am I to say that my faith is somehow superior to that other person because I believe differently? Cannot the Christ work through us both with equal efficiency if we choose to permit that? When you strip away all the theory and dogma and pomp and circumstance and edicts and mantras that are built into the whole purely because Christianity is a body of humans who are all fallible as human beings, Christianity is not a belief system. Christianity is a relationship with the entity we call Christ.

You see there is no 'manifesto' detailing all that Christians must believe and what they must not believe in order to be credible Christians any more than there is such a thing for Atheists. And the fact that many Christians refuse to attempt to put God in a box with walls and limitations or that they refuse to restrict Christ to a set of rules and edicts is not 'cherry picking' any more than two Atheists disagreeing on any point of sociopolitical theory, science, or history.

Now again. If you wake up in the morning and most of the people in your world are gone, what would you think?

Somehow I don't think that would convince them to go away. But I have found that they will go away if you simply tell them you are familiar with the teachings of the Jehovah witnesses and you are not interested. When we lived out on the mountain, I was sometimes far more isolated from daily human contact than I wanted, and I invited the JW's in just for the company. They were generally quite pleasant people. The same group never came back though because they couldn't out "Bible" me and when I insisted on witnessing to them, I was telling them what they are not allowed to hear.

I have been known to tell telemarketers though that I am not interested in their product but I was really happy they called because my husband sells insurance and I just found the Lord and do they have a minute? They usually thanked me and hung up really quickly.

(Yes Francis, that was a lie. My bad. I will no doubt require extra penance in purgatory if there actually is a purgatory.)