Jesus said I am the way.

And James Watt, Ronald Reagan's first Secretary of the Interior, charged with protecting the environment of the US, thought that basically the environmenbt didn't need protecting because Jesus was coming back soon, probably while Reagan was in office. He was wrong. Thanks, Ronnie, in whatever envirnmentalists' hell you're in now, for that choice (For the sarcasm-challenged, the last sentence was sarcasm).

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

I thought the video was completely silly, right from that "6000 years" bit on. The Rapture wasn't even invented until the 19th century--no one before then thought anything like that would be part of the final days.

Every generation, from the one right after Jesus died, people look at the signs and portents and predictions and decide, yep, the time is now, he's coming back soon. Every single time, he hasn't. Tony Alamo, the preacher now up for sexual misadventures with his flock, apparently postered most of the country predicting that the world as we know it woould end on a specific day in the 1990s, I think in 1992. I recently saw the remains of one of his flyers still glued on a cement lamppost. It lasted longer than he did. The question is, how many thousand times can you be wrong before maybe you conclude the whole thing is never going to happen

Well your time line is off a bit. Estatological teachings were apparent in New Testament writings when it was initially thought that Jesus's return would be relatively soon and before the present generation had passed. By the time John was writing his Epistles at or near the end of the the First Century AD, however, there seemed to be more understanding that the Church would need to dig in and be prepared for a longer haul.

Church doctrines of eschatology, including theories of the principles of the rapture, began to be developed early in the 15th century and since then many, many theologians (and okay a few opportunists) have studied and theorized on how all that will be with no clear consensus emerging.

But all that aside, what if they are right that something like that is destined to happen?

Suppose you're hauling yourself out of bed in the morning and find most of the people in your family, neighborhood, vicinity gone. Missing. Kaput.

What would you think?

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@Foxfyre,

Still trying to sell that atheist are a religion faith of some kind Foxfyre shame on you.

Sorry if you told me that you have an army of little men under your bed I would place the the likelihood of your army at roughly the same order as the likelihood of a supernatural Jesus of the bible existing or having exist.

No need to call on faith as the issue can be settle nicely by commonsense of a sane mind.

2 Replies

@Francis,

Francis wrote:

However, I'm ready to go to hell, in case I would be wrong.

I take my responsibilities.

But I'm sure god will be in hell with me, for all his wrongdoings, which are obviously worse than mine..

It is always difficult when one uses whatever earthly wisdom one has in the natural world to try to understand things in the spiritual world. One must look beyond what they perceive to be real to understand what is a possibility.

If believers were as adamant and closed minded as some atheists, we would probably see even more sarcasm and outright ridicule in these threads. Thankfully, that does not appear to be the case.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Fear driven that the end of the world is coming along with Jesus and of course there is always the old pit if you do not forget logic and common sense and come to Jesus.

No dear heart a god that would used fear to get his worshipers is not a god I am planning on worshiping in the live times of many universes.

1 Reply

Fox:

And what if you're wrong and the Twelfth Imam comes back tomorrow and creates the Islamic Caliphate that embraces whe whole world?

What if you're wrong and Jesus comes back tomorrow and decides that MACs have selfishly perverted his faith of caring for others and condemns you all to hell?

What if Godzilla and Rodan come back tomorrow and stomp Albuquerque flat?

There's no evidence any of them are going to return, and a whole lot of failed predictions that they will. I'm not holding my breath.

1 Reply

@Pemerson,

Have you read the bible at all?

In it god help wipe out whole peoples because they was in the way of his chosen ones. That would be interfering in my world view.

He wipe out all human all life and all animal life on the planet but for one family in a home build ship that would be interfering with humans and the rest of the animal life on the planet.

That just a start of the interfering claim in the bible by this evil god.

1 Reply

@spendius,

A population that is somewhat slower to follow it leadership into war would be nice and one who think for itself also.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Still trying to sell that atheist are a religion faith of some kind Foxfyre shame on you.

Sorry if you told me that you have an army of little men under your bed I would place the the likelihood of your army at roughly the same order as the likelihood of a supernatural Jesus of the bible existing or having exist.

No need to call on faith as the issue can be settle nicely by commonsense of a sane mind.

Who gets to determine what is common sense and who gets to determine the sanity of mind?

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Fear driven that the end of the world is coming along with Jesus and of course there is always the old pit if you do not forget logic and common sense and come to Jesus.

No dear heart a god that would used fear to get his worshipers is not a god I am planning on worshiping in the live times of many universes.

A believer does not fear the end of the world. A believer does not fear God.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Still trying to sell that atheist are a religion faith of some kind Foxfyre shame on you.

Sorry if you told me that you have an army of little men under your bed I would place the the likelihood of your army at roughly the same order as the likelihood of a supernatural Jesus of the bible existing or having exist.

No need to call on faith as the issue can be settle nicely by commonsense of a sane mind.

Hey if you don't want Atheism to be a bonafide religion, take it up with the federal courts, Bill, unless you wish to lose your Constitutionally protected right to your personal beliefs.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6034949/Atheism-Is-Protected-As-a-Religion-says-Court-

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Have you read the bible at all?

In it god help wipe out whole peoples because they was in the way of his chosen ones. That would be interfering in my world view.

He wipe out all human all life and all animal life on the planet but for one family in a home build ship that would be interfering with humans and the rest of the animal life on the planet.

That just a start of the interfering claim in the bible by this evil god.

God did not wipe them out. They had the opportunity to join Noah and chose not to.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Fox:

And what if you're wrong and the Twelfth Imam comes back tomorrow and creates the Islamic Caliphate that embraces whe whole world?

What if you're wrong and Jesus comes back tomorrow and decides that MACs have selfishly perverted his faith of caring for others and condemns you all to hell?

What if Godzilla and Rodan come back tomorrow and stomp Albuquerque flat?

There's no evidence any of them are going to return, and a whole lot of failed predictions that they will. I'm not holding my breath.

I don't spend much time worrying about Godzilla and Rodan, MJ, nor would it bother me if you were writing a scholarly epic describing how they were 100% real to you. I would think you either a really strange person in that regard or somebody attempting to pull off a scam for personal profit.

And I would be really surprised and terribly disappointed if Jesus came back tomorrow to advise me that I was going to Hell, as my experience with Him has not made that a possibility. I would not be surprised to learn that a whole lot of us have some really screwy ideas about a lot of stuff which I have suspected for a long time now.

You see, all that I know for certain is through my personal relationship with God. And that is a really special thing for me. I would wish it for you. I cannot understand why anyone would want me not to have it.

So I wasn't interested in any 'what ifs' other than the one proposed in that video. If you wake up in the morning and almost everybody is gone, what would you think?

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Perhaps their fear of being wrong causes some of them to act irrationally and passionately.

After all, if we are right we go to heaven. If we are wrong, it doesn't matter. If they are right, it doesn't matter. If they are wrong they go to hell.

Heck, I would be afraid too.

I honestly don't know why the subject seems so threatening to some or why some seem to drawn like magnets to a thread like this. Intuitively, I hope it is the Holy Spirit that is pushing them along knowing that sooner or later they'll lower their resistance and the light of possibility can switch on. As I have long resisted being told what I must believe to go to Heaven, I do cringe when somebody starts spelling out the rules or words that have to be said, etc. to get somebody there. I don't want to make people hate Jesus because those who represent him, intentionally or unintentionally, represent Him badly.

But would a rational person be so 'frightened' if they truly didn't believe there could be anything to it? Interesting question.

I used to know an old preacher who said he thought some folks have to be dangled over the pit a bit before they understand it's gonna be real hot down there.

What do you think about this video? Good? Bad? Powerful? Disturbing? (It takes a few minutes to watch, but if your time is limited watch about the last half.)

I do not subscribe to the time period of six thousand years as some people do. I feel that the time period is irrelevant and it could be thousands, millions, billions and it does not change anything.

I did not find it disturbing (except for the loss of a heartbeat when the bible slammed to the floor with a deafening thud).

Just like the Boy Scouts ----- Be Prepared Smile

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

Yes, if you have your speakers turned up, that was pretty dramatic and it did get your attention fast, huh. Smile

I understand how Fundamentalists need that 6000 years, or else they can't make the geneologies in the Bible work for them and they can't make the Bible the literal dictated Word of God as they want it to be. I don't care who they got right or wrong or left out or added in the geneologies, so I am quite comfortable accepting the Bible as part history, part allegorical, part poetry, part instruction, part prophecy, part symbolic, and part old-fashioned Jewish exaggeration to illustrate a teaching moment, but you put it all together and it does give us some insight into those people of God and how they saw their world and their relationship with a Being they never could quite find the words to fully define. And I find no conflict of any kind between the Bible and what hard science that we know.

Do I think we can find God in the Bible, Old and New Testament. Certainly. I have to believe God is in it or it would not have survived the vigorous attempt by so many to stamp it out to become the worldwide best seller that it has been since the invention of the printing press. Probably before. Do I believe the Holy Spirit is in it? I have to believe that when so many have been blessed by hearing and reading the Word.

And do I think we're all gonna be really really surprised at how many wrong ideas about all this stuff we have adopted when we can ask questions face to face? Yeah, I think we're going to be really surprised. Smile

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

I thought the video was completely silly, right from that "6000 years" bit on. The Rapture wasn't even invented until the 19th century--no one before then thought anything like that would be part of the final days.

Every generation, from the one right after Jesus died, people look at the signs and portents and predictions and decide, yep, the time is now, he's coming back soon. Every single time, he hasn't. Tony Alamo, the preacher now up for sexual misadventures with his flock, apparently postered most of the country predicting that the world as we know it woould end on a specific day in the 1990s, I think in 1992. I recently saw the remains of one of his flyers still glued on a cement lamppost. It lasted longer than he did. The question is, how many thousand times can you be wrong before maybe you conclude the whole thing is never going to happen

I guess they didn't read the book of Revelation prior to the 19th century. Shocked

Man's predictions mean absolutely nothing. Even Jesus did not know the time of His return. God does not have a Rolex.

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

Yes, if you have your speakers turned up, that was pretty dramatic and it did get your attention fast, huh.

Yup. Is that what they mean by bible thumpers?

I am guessing that more bibles get thumped than read based on some of what I have been reading.

I must say that I have enjoyed reading your posts and admire the fact that you stand up for your faith and are proud of it.

I haven't seen many atheists stand up for what they believe. Rather I have seen them try to tear apart what people of faith believe. Kind of says something.....doesn't it?

Wink

2 Replies

@Foxfyre,

My my more silliness and my right to express myself is not limited to the religion clause of the constitution my silly friend.

There are a few other amendments that grant rights to free expression.

You might like to put your bible down and do some other readings.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

What do you suggest? Perhaps The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins?

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@Intrepid,

Quote:

I haven't seen many atheists stand up for what they believe. Rather I have seen them try to tear apart what people of faith believe. Kind of says something.....doesn't it?

while it's accurate to say there is a fringe element of atheists who do what you say they do, the vast majority of atheists don't ever bother with religionists be it tearing them apart or otherwise. Most atheists are quietly living out their lives in the best manner they know just as do most religionists. mutual acknowledgment and deference seems to bring about the most pleasant results for persons of all or no faiths.

2 Replies

Jesus said I am the way.

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