17
   

Sarah Palin resigns as Governor of Alaska.

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:16 am
@ebrown p,
spoken as a good partisan. We need two solid parties, both with good but different ideas on what to do and both with the ability to govern responsibly. Right now we have zero. This is a problem. The board has been left wide open for the radicals and the crazies, for them to ferment and then milk the rage of the population, rage that was birthed by the incompetent and corrupt Republican Party and Democratic Party.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:16 am
@JPB,
Quote:


I certainly hope so! The 2-party system has been dysfunctional for decades. May it's demise come quickly!


What would you replace the 2-party system with?

The one party system seems like a good idea right now, but I don't think it is good for the country in the long run.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:16 am
@JPB,
I would agree...but what would you propose to be put in its place?

I say reform what we have by eliminating PAC groups and special intererst lobbyists from the stranglehood the have on legislature and Congress.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:21 am
@JPB,
Quote:
The 2-party system has been dysfunctional for decades. May it's demise come quickly!
That's it's best feature, a functional government is a dangerous government. Italy has survived for 1,000's of years as an anarchy. (with some minor exceptions of highly functional fascism)
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:23 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
We need two solid parties, both with good but different ideas on what to do and both with the ability to govern responsibly. Right now we have zero.


I am reasonably happy with the Democrats right now. They are not perfect, but they are certainly moving in the right direction.

Of course this is subjective. The only objective ways to measure a parties "solidness" is with election results and opinion polling. The Democrats, and particularly the Obama are doing just fine in both of these measures.

Of course, you each have a right to your personal opinion.


0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:24 am
@dyslexia,
Dys, I respect your point of view. I disagree with it only on pragmatic terms.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:32 am
@Ragman,
First, I would propose term limits for all national offices. We need people who want to serve the people, not themselves or their parties.

Second, if we must have parties, I would propose that candidates proclaim a party/platform of choice but that voters would not register with any party and that all elections (primary, and otherwise) be open elections.

Third, if we end up with multiple parties then I suggest a coalition type government.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:40 am
@JPB,
One other comment on parties. Washington fought against them. He felt that political parties would create factions and the factions would become so polarized that the will of the people would be sacrificed in favor of the will of the parties. George was a very smart man.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:40 am
@JPB,
Open primary elections are a horrible idea. They lead to more partisanship, not less. (Of course general elections have always been open elections.)

In every election (including the last one) open primaries have led to voters casting sabotage votes (i.e. voting for the weakest candidate of the other party).

How is this a good thing for democracy?


JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:45 am
@ebrown p,
Well, considering that I think parties are a bad thing for democracy, then if you're going to have primaries I think they should be open. Each voter gets one vote in the primary and general election. Why should that vote be in any way restricted? You have millions of people making uneducated votes in this country. They're led around by the nose by their parties. At least open primaries let folks who study and understand the issues cast a ballot that represents their own interest.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:50 am
@JPB,
incompetent voting does not get solved by getting rid of or weakening the parties, it gets solved by restricting the vote. We believe in universal suffrage, and that goes with the understanding that we must tolerate uneducated and uniformed voters.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:50 am
@JPB,
Reluctantly, I've come to agree on term limits. Like Cincinnatus, do your duty, then go away and get a real job.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:56 am
Obama is maybe ten million times better than Bush, but that is just a baby step in the right direction. Until the politicians of both parties learn to say n0 to lobbyists and try instead to focus on constructive measures I will continue to dissent.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:57 am
@hawkeye10,
Who's trying to solve the problem of incompetent voting? Not me. I'm trying to solve to problem of the two-party system representing far left and far right wing factions to the point that the best interests of the country have fallen through the gap.

We are in an "us vs them" mentality when it should be a "we the people" mentality. Politicians are serving their own self interests and the interests of their parties over the interests of the citizens. It's time for them to go.... all of them.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 11:57 am
@roger,
Quote:
Reluctantly, I've come to agree on term limits. Like Cincinnatus, do your duty, then go away and get a real job.

Great, so Corporate America killed the gold goose by becoming fixated at short term profits over long term health, and you want to do the same thing to politics! Temp public servants are no more interested in the long term than are corp execs who have 90%+ of their pay tied to quarterly earnings.

There are no short cuts, you don't solve the political process problems without going head to head with the corruption that has taken hold of that process.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 12:00 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
We are in an "us vs them" mentality when it should be a "we the people" mentality. Politicians are serving their own self interests and the interests of their parties over the interests of the citizens. It's time for them to go.... all of them


well hell, if that is the problem you want solved the fix is well known, you either reform the current parties or you eliminate them with replacements. You don't ditch the two party process envisioned in the Constitution, that is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Again, you want the short cut solution, and there are none.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 12:04 pm
@hawkeye10,
Huh? I don't pretend to be an expert on the Constitution but where in the Constitution do you see that the original founders envisioned a two-party system?
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 12:11 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:


Great, so Corporate America killed the gold goose by becoming fixated at short term profits over long term health, and you want to do the same thing to politics! Temp public servants are no more interested in the long term than are corp execs who have 90%+ of their pay tied to quarterly earnings.


And the alternative is "public servants" who have 100% of their pay tied to reelection, combined with an incumbant's ability to bribe the voters?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 12:11 pm
@JPB,
to the best of my knowledge there is no mention in the constitution of any "party system" but then, there is no mention of term limits either.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Jul, 2009 12:15 pm
@dyslexia,
22nd amendment, but only applies to president, of course.
 

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