21
   

entrapment or not

 
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 07:32 am
@BillRM,
that's a ridiculous argument, just because you failed a lie detector about wether or not you would do it, it's the doing that is the crime, the minute you go to the house or motel or whatever you cross the line

if i was given a lie detector about various crimes there's a good chance i'd fail, i'd rob a bank if i thought i could get away with it, there are people that i would kill, except i don't want to go to jail

Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 09:04 am
@BillRM,
Sure, 'tis a wonderful thing. However, only the weak minded need electronic help to ignore a fool and an asshole like you, Bill. And, of course, i never was and never will be your friend.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 09:18 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:



Somehow I never view one of law enforcement main duties the temptation of citizens to committed fantasy crimes.



That should probably be the dividing line. Are they offering the opportunity, or providing the temptation.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 09:28 am
@djjd62,
Dhhd2 before you go to the house you had committed a crime my friend the visit just add to it and help prove it was you on the other end of the computer and also make for good TV.

Please take note that the DA who kill himself when the police and the Date Line show up at his doorstep never went near the bait house.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 09:32 am
@BillRM,
i can live with one less lawyer
0 Replies
 
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 09:43 am
@BillRM,
but you're idea of thinking any kind of action is ridiculous, i first got really into the internet in the mid 90's, i was about 34 and really into console gaming, one of my favourite sites at the time was populated by many teenagers, many of whom i was quite friendly with on a variety of topics, i did however make it perfectly clear how old i was and when the topic of sex came up i avoided those topics like the plague (there where people on the board who were over 18 and would engage them in any topic i felt comfortable with)

i struggled with even leaving comments on the picture threads, i posted a pic of myself, got ragged on for being an old dude, and did leave comments on other posters pics, even girls under 18, but always straightforward comments (nice pic that kind of stuff)

if any of these kids had ever started any kind of inappropriate discussion, i would have shut it down and moved on, i would not have agreed to meet them on any terms
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 10:14 am
@djjd62,
Ok that fine and I feel the same way that however does not mean that the people who are seduce by adults pretending to be children not children should spend 5 years or more in prison and have their families and children become depended on society.

A heavy fine and forbidden to have a private computer internet account for five years or so seem to fit a little better.
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 10:23 am
@BillRM,
Yeah and no access to underage children.

Bill - a person who has no sexual interest in children could never be seduced by anyone pretending to be anything to take part in any part of this. Only a person who has an interest in a child sexually could be entrapped or seduced to participate in anything that would get him (or her) in trouble.

So, if there is a man with children who is talking sexually to children on the internet, but not touching them, I would hope that he would be at least removed from his home if he has children himself - to keep them out of harm's way.
I would feel that they were indeed safer if the pervert (even though he's their biological father) who enjoy the idea of sex with children were removed in one way or another from their home.
And I'd hope that he'd still have to pay support.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 10:23 am
@BillRM,
why do their families and children have to become dependent on society, that's their choice

as for entrapment it is what it is, keep yourself safe or pay the price, i have no problem with that kind of stuff, drug stings, prostitution stings, hell i'm all for racial profiling if it includes everybody, i was pulled over one afternoon, there was one other vehicle on the road and he was going well over the speed limit, a cop parked in a parking lot, pulled out after i passed, flipped the lights on and pulled me over

he asked me where i'd been, checked my license and registration mad sent me on my way, i figure they were looking for a white guy with a shaved head driving a red coupe and i fit the bill, no big deal
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 11:20 am
@aidan,
Well show me studies that show a connection between those men who had shown up to the bait house with harming their own children or any other children for that matter.

Seem that most of them are not known sexual predators from my understanding and for the most part do not have criminal histories of any kind.

Taking a father away from his children and who are you harming but those very children unless you can show a connection and not just your feelings.

ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 11:25 am
@djjd62,
Quote:
hell i'm all for racial profiling if it includes everybody


LOL
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 11:33 am
@BillRM,
Bill - I can't show you a connection with those specific men, because I don't know their names, so I can't know their histories.
But I do know this - the huge majority of children who are sexually abused, are abused by family members or people known to them.
Quote:
1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 18. (96)
1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 18. (96)
1 in 5 children are solicited sexually while on the internet. (30, 87)
Nearly 70% of all reported sexual assaults (including assaults on adults) occur to children ages 17 and under. (76)
An estimated 39 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse exist in America today. (1)
Even within the walls of their own homes, children are at risk for sexual abuse

30-40% of victims are abused by a family member. (2, 44, 76)
Another 50% are abused by someone outside of the family whom they know and trust.
Approximately 40% are abused by older or larger children whom they know. (1, 44)
Therefore, only 10% are abused by strangers.
Sexual abuse can occur at all ages, probably younger than you think

The median age for reported abuse is 9 years old. (64)
More than 20% of children are sexually abused before the age of 8. (76)
Nearly 50% of all victims of forcible sodomy, sexual assault with an object, and forcible fondling are children under 12. (74, 76)
Most children don't tell even if they have been asked

Evidence that a child has been sexually abused is not always obvious, and many children do not report that they have been abused.
Over 30% of victims never disclose the experience to ANYONE.
Young victims may not recognize their victimization as sexual abuse.
Almost 80% initially deny abuse or are tentative in disclosing. Of those who do disclose, approximately 75% disclose accidentally. Additionally, of those who do disclose, more than 20% eventually recant even though the abuse occurred.
Fabricated sexual abuse reports constitute only 1% to 4% of all reported cases. Of these reports, 75% are falsely reported by adults and 25% are reported by children. Children only fabricate ½% of the time.


So, if there are people on the internet trolling for children - even to just talk to or fantasize with about having sex - it would follow that these are people who have an interest in children sexually.
If a man is a father, with young children in his home, and he is interested in children sexually - those children are at risk.
He may have no prior criminal history, precisely because of the nature of his relationship to those he abuses and the facts that bear out that childhood sexual abuse is often a crime that goes unreported or undetected.

If I found my childrens' father talking to children in a sexual manner on the internet - I don't care if he never even looked at pictures of children - if he seemed interested in any way in a child sexually - I would not let him near my children.
It's NOT normal fatherly or sexual behavior Bill.
If I wouldn't let my kids ride in the car with someone who'd been drinking - why would I let them sleep in a house with someone who seems to enjoy talking, thinking and fantasizing about having sex with children?
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 11:42 am
@aidan,
thank you for the post aidan...I've been following this thread with mounting nausea...maybe some numbers will curb the nonsense that's being written
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 11:45 am
@panzade,
sobering, arent' they (the numbers). This **** is NOT some sort of innocuous computer game.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 11:47 am
@aidan,
that's what needed to be said
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 12:04 pm
@aidan,
Yes you are right most children are harm by family members not evil internet predators now show me some any kind of scientific evidence of a association between those men at the bait house and harm done to their own family children.

With out that being shown all you are doing is harming real children by removing their fathers from their lives for zero known benefit.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 12:08 pm
@panzade,
And the numbers relate to the men that show up at the bait house in what manner?

Maybe we should just assume that all adult males or even teen males are a risk to children and removed them?

If there is a connection between the men that show up at the bait house and harm to family children it should not be hard to show before we order fathers out of homes.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 12:18 pm
@aidan,
Yes you wish to take actions that make you feel good and to hell with the unneeded harm it might do to children and that is the problem with this whole internet tv show approach to child abuse.

I would have zero problem with ordering such men out of the family household if it can be shown that the children in those households would be better off as a result.

But you just are willing to assume that as a given and to hell with facts that would not be hard to find one way or another.

Shame on you.
mm25075
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 01:13 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

I would have zero problem with ordering such men out of the family household if it can be shown that the children in those households would be better off as a result.


So we should give the father/uncle/bother etc a 'chance' to molest in his their own home with children they know because we don't have a scientific measurement to substantiate that they will do it to their own relative?

Sorry, but as a victim of sexual abuse as a child, I would rather have had my uncle, my step father, and my cousin enticed to act and gotten caught BEFORE they attempted such activities on me. That type of 'sting' was not around when I was young. I never reported it, but that doesn't mean it DIDN'T happen.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Jun, 2009 01:32 pm
@mm25075,
Let not given any adult male a chance to harm children we should order all adult males out of family households with children correct?

Why should we give them a chance to harm children?

Show me that this sub-group of males that had ended up on a tv show is any more likely to harm families children then any other male pick at random.

Show me a scientific connection as if there is one it should be a simple matter to find.

Let cut out the emotional bullshit and look at the subject and the facts.
 

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