San Diego tries to ban Christianity

@Setanta,

Found this in the zoning code...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2478/3578602708_96afb0d974_b.jpg

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@Joe Nation,

Quote:

Hold a garage sale? Sure? Need a permit? Nah.

But...hold a garage sale every weekend for weeks on end and you are sure to attract the attention of the traffic division, the sales tax division and so on up through the local government's arms of code enforcement.
Their mistake was making the regularity visible by annoying their neighbors.

When I moved into my neighborhood, there was a guy who would pick up stuff here and there, and often held garage sales. It was like his hobby. People started complaining about all the traffic, and soon a reglulation was passed in the community association that a person could only hold a garage sale once (or twice, I don't remember which) a year.

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Religious assembly has ALWAYS been a conditional use or preexisting "non conforming" use issue. Unless San Diego JUST passed an ordinance that spwcifically forbad this type of conditional use as provided in Cals MPC, then its off to court for these guys. (Or as Thomas so noted-There will be a potato dropped and the entire thing blows over and the ministry wins by default)

1 Reply

@farmerman,

And you are of the opinion that the neighbors are just going to stand silent and allow the city to drop this matter?

Other then having a crack house next door I can not off hand think of anything more annoying then having a quit street turn into a parking lot.

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@BillRM,

I dont disagree, but thats not what the city is asking for.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Sorry but if you block or greatly interfere with my law legal access to my property it is a matter of property rights in my non-lawyer openion.

Sure. And if and when that happens, your city is free to remove the vehicles blocking your access, and to fine their owners. Making it a matter of zoning law is way overbroad.

1 Reply

@Thomas,

Why is it overboard when we are talking about private homes with limited parking and someone is using their home as a meeting place that is constantly bringing in a flood of cars?

Seem to me this is a situation that the whole idea of zoning laws was design for.

1 Reply

It is entirely possible that San Diego County will decide that this is not worth their while. Nevertheless, based on the information JPB provided, it seems to me that SD County provides for churches and places of religious assembly in a routine, ordinary fashion, and these clowns have ignored that, and are now squealing because their knuckles were rapped when the neighbors complained. I think SD County has justice on their side, but the special pleading of religious whiners will probably win out.

1 Reply

@Setanta,

This is hardly the first time zoning laws and religion had come into conflict and it is my understanding that if the zoning is reasonable then the courts had have no problem enforcing it.

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Quote:

San Diego tries to ban Christianity

Somehow the headline Gunga spewed doesn't seem to jive with the facts. What a surprise.

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UNITED STATES CODE TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE PART I -
CRIMES CHAPTER 13 - CIVIL RIGHTS
§§ 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law

Whoever, under color of any law, statute,
ordinance, regulation, or custom,
willfully subjects any inhabitant of any State,
Territory, or District to the deprivation of any rights,
privileges, or immunities secured or protected
by the Constitution or laws of the United States, . . .

shall be fined not more than $1,000
or imprisoned not more than one year, or both;
and if bodily injury results shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both;
and if death results shall be subject to imprisonment for
any term of years or for life.

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TITLE 42 > CHAPTER 21 > SUBCHAPTER I >

§ 1983 Civil action for deprivation of rights

Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance,
regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the
District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected,
any citizen of the United States or other person within the
jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights,
privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws,
shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law,
suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except
that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act
or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive
relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was
violated or declaratory relief was unavailable. . . .

[All emphasis is added by David]

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

And what rights are you talking about? The right to break zoning laws and cause your neighbors not to be able to enjoy their own properties/homes?

The right to turn a small single family home into a meeting hall is that the right we are talking about?

1 Reply

I see no evidence that anyone is deprived of any rights.

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@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Why is it overboard when we are talking about private homes with limited parking and someone is using their home as a meeting place that is constantly bringing in a flood of cars?

1) Because the parking is on a public road, in which the private home owners have no property interest. If I invite 15 friends to watch baseball every week, and my friends park in accordance with traffic rules, that's nobody else's business, including my neighbors'. To repeat: the road in front of your house belongs to everyone. It isn't yours to bar parking cars from.

2) Because there are narrower regulations by which the county can achieve the same end, without introducing a needless religious classification. For example --

a) if the main concern is that firefighters can't reach burning buildings, property owners can't drive onto their driveways, and suchlike, the county can give tickets to the offending cars, even remove the cars as necessary at the owners' expense. That's a narrow regulation.

b) if the main concern is that a quiet neighborhood road is made loud by an excess of traffic, the county can declare the street a residents-only zone, and ticket and remove any cars visiting from outside the zone. That's a somewhat broader regulation, but still much narrower than a zoning law with religious distinctions in it, which seems to be in place here.

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@Thomas,

Single homes are single homes not meeting halls for whatever reason.

Thomas that why you have zoning laws to keep people from using property in a way that interfere with others.

You cannot run a bar and dance hall or a church out of a single home zone as a single home and this is under zoning laws and always had been under zoning laws.

I do not see where you are coming from are you against all zoning laws and limitation on property used?

Is it only because it is a religion used that you have a problem with the enforcement of zoning laws or do you have problems with zoning laws in general?

Second comment people do seem to have property rights when it come to zoning laws. The courts had rule at least in some cases that changing zoning laws in a manner that reduce the value of a piece of property can be consider a taking and the owner have a claim for payment for such a taking from the government that change the zoning laws.

Off hand having a small church set up in a home next door against zoning laws is likely to reduce your property value unless it is stop.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

And
Quote:
what rights are you talking about?

Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Assembly, Freedom of Religion

Quote:

The right to break zoning laws and cause your neighbors
not to be able to enjoy their own properties/homes?

Yes.
Zoning laws r void
if inconsistent with the Bill of Rights

Quote:

The right to turn a small single family home into a meeting hall
is that the right we are talking about?

Among other things, yes.

David

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@Thomas,

Quote:

To repeat: the road in front of your house belongs to everyone. It isn't yours to bar parking cars from.

If that is so, then why do so many communities mandate that a property owner must, for example, keep his portion of a sidewalk clear after a snow-storm? If the street is a public way then how can the city fine me for not keeping this "public way" clear and well-maintained?

1 Reply

These are the general rules for parking in San Diego and San Diego County.
http://www.sandiego.gov/parking/enforcement/rules.shtml

Part of the parking regulation says

Quote:

....or in such a manner that obstructs the free use of the street.

Now the Pastor lives at the end of a cul-de-sac and the street leading up
to their house is rather small. Adjacent neighbors have only a small access
to the road as it was seen on the news station's video. It looks all very rural
out there and the street in question doesn't have a sidewalk either, just a
small paved road, ending in a cul-de-sac where the house in question sits.

I can't imagine that 15 parked cars do NOT obstruct the free use of the
street, let alone emergency vehicles and fire engines. Fires are a huge concern
in San Diego County and Bonita being a rural area, it is of utmost importance
that roads are accessible to emergency vehicles and fire engines.
What I have seen on the video the news station showed, the pastor is clearly in violation.

Unfortunately, this has been made out to be a war against "God" and not
what it should be: a clear parking violation! The Christian network throughout
the United States has flooded the city with letters/emails of
complaints and disdain. Overwhelming to say the least.

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@CalamityJane,

What is even more funny is this war against god is likely driven by others Christians who would like to enjoy their homes in peace. Given that most of the population ID themselves as Christians<sadly>.

Now if it can be shown that a dirty Jesus killing Jew was the one who first file the complain we could have a nice little holy war but I do not think that is going to be the case.

What is needed is one of the neighbors who is also a god fearing church going man to come forward and state in public why this "pastor" and his meetings are interfering with others good Christians home lives.

1 Reply

San Diego tries to ban Christianity

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