Standing by your man: Maria (good); Hillary (bad)?

It's not particularly obsessed about here. More like commented on, and accepted. Several recent premiers/ministers have been outted about mistresses etc. It was noted, and then things moved on. Our recently defeated premier has been with his co-vivant for many years. (Their relationship was not a part of his defeat.) Political creatures are people - they have affairs, mess up, fool around, whatever - there's no reason they should be any different. Of course, choosing to be in the public eye, they realize that it will be noted and commented on, before it is put aside. We have lots of political figures here who have done things/do things that would not cut it in the U.S. media circus. We had political leaders come out of the closet years ago. Two I can think of, literally decades ago. My personal favourite is a western premier who went to a homeless shelter after a political dinner, drunk as a skunk, ranted at the guys that they should get jobs, then went home to sleep it off. He's still quite popular. I can't imagine him surviving in the U.S.

Political writers have been writing about politician's sexual, and other personal, pecadilloes for hundreds of years. Nothing new, or surprising, to be found there.

I do think that if you're going to comment on the 'whatevers' of the left, it's only fair to comment on the 'whatevers' of the right and centre. At the same time, I don't think I can expect the same commentators to be involved. I'd like to see it, but I don't expect it.

Yes - I didn't think Canada took it to the level of the USA...

I am not all that worried about Arnold's obsession with silicon. It isn't what I would base my voting decision upon and has very little to do with whether or not he is capable of fulfulling the void in the governor's office.

The media does the voters a disservice by obsessively running with this "tit"ilation at the expense of any sort of indepth investigative effort of the agendas of the candidates.

I think this whole thing is complicated by the fact that Arnold was a celebrity before he was a politician. I think celebrities regularly get away with bad bad things that they shouldn't get away with. I find the accusations plausible.

That doesn't mean I definitely believe them... sure, they could be trumped up. And definitely, they were brought to light (or at least publicized) for unsavory, muckraking reasons, and I would rather that the muckraking not be such a big part of politics.

MoveOn sent an email with a bunch of the "evidence". I put it in quotes, because who knows. Again, though, it seems plausible. Stuff like this, from a March 2001 Premiere Magazine story on him:



This is hardly cast-iron evidence. Just tends to make sense to me. And IF it is true, I do think that a pattern of harrassing women and not being held accountable is different from having consensual sexual relationships. I don't like the latter, and I'm still extremely angry at Bill Clinton for being such an idiot. I'd perhaps prefer that such a peccadillo would not result in ruin, but he knew it would, and he did it anyway, and that was beyond idiotic.

While I'd prefer that consensual sex would not have such an outsized effect on political prospects, I DO think that sexual harrassment, especially patterns of sexual harrassment (disclaimer again -- I know nothing has been proven, but he has been apologizing, there is actual evidence, etc.), are a different kettle of fish and should always be taken seriously. I think the issue here is less that someone seeking office is being unfairly raked over the coals than that a celebrity has unfairly used his power and influence to get away with exceedingly bad and possibly criminal behavior.

Sozobe
Sozobe, thank you for the info, which is quite widely known in California, and your comments. They are so right on target. It explains why those of us who have known of Arnold's consistent behavior and abuse of power are so upset about his attempt to take the governorship of California to satisfy his extreme egotistic needs. That is not the sort of person California needs to guide the state through its current problems.

BumbleBeeBoogie

while his wife, Maria Shriver, staunchly defended him from accusations that he had made unwanted sexual advances to women.
In a sweep through California, Mr. Schwarzenegger, the actor seeking to become governor in the state's recall election on Tuesday, pledged on the second day of his bus tour: "I will stay focused. I will stay focused because the fight continues."

Still, he gave a series of interviews trying to explain the questions swirling around his campaign.

On Thursday, with polls showing him surging, his campaign was shaken by accounts by six women who told The Los Angeles Times he had made unsolicited physical advances. He also faced questions about a book proposal, obtained by The New York Times and ABC News, that quoted him as saying in 1975 that he had admired Hitler.

His campaign continued trying to tamp down the controversy on Friday, issuing a statement from George Butler, the author of the book proposal, saying the remarks were taken out of context and not completely accurate. The statement included what it said were more accurate quotations. [Page A9.]

He apologized on Thursday for having "behaved badly sometimes" toward women and said he despised "anything that Hitler stands for."

An array of polls this week showed strong support for recalling Gov. Gray Davis. Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican, emerged as the most popular of 135 candidates to replace the Democratic governor. The recall ballot first asks voters to decide if Mr. Davis should be ousted. It then asks them to chose a replacement.

With just days to go before the election, some political strategists said the new accusations could narrow the race, but doubted there was enough time to change its dynamics.

"Its likely that this narrows the margin on the recall," said Dan Schnur, a Republican consultant who ran the campaign of the former baseball commissioner Peter V. Ueberroth until he dropped out of the recall race. "The question is by how much. Voters might not like what they are hearing about Arnold, but they really hated Gray for a long time."

Gale Kaufman, a Democratic political consultant who often works for organized labor in Sacramento, said she expected that some of Mr. Schwarzenegger's supporters would become undecided but that sentiment in favor of the recall of Mr. Davis would not diminish.

"I don't think it affects the yes or no question at all," she said. "Because I think people have made up their mind on that question and they have been pretty solid all along. And they knew who the candidates were a week ago."

Aides to Mr. Schwarzenegger said that their overnight polls showed no erosion in support.

Still, in a last push for Mr. Davis, women's groups opposed to Mr. Schwarzenegger, joined by Arianna Huffington, a onetime recall candidate, held protest rallies around the state and Democrats joined them in raising sharp questions about Mr. Schwarzenegger's character.

"I don't see how anyone can admire Adolf Hitler," Mr. Davis told the ABC television show "Good Morning America." "Any decent American has to be offended by that phrase."

Senator Dianne Feinstein, a steadfast Davis supporter who is considered one of the most popular Democratic politicians in the state, echoed the theme on the "Today" show on NBC. "If this was a man that found Adolf Hitler to be a glorified and acceptable and a desirable character," she said, "I sure want to know it as a Californian because I don't want that man as my governor."

In Washington, where the Democratic National Committee was meeting, party members also attacked the actor.

"You know, after reading in the paper this morning about the pill popping and skirt chasing and Hitler praising, it would be very tempting to point out Republicans' hypocrisy on values," said Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut. "But would it be right to do? Absolutely." The Democrats' statements were prompted by the fact that a film producer, Mr. Butler, who chronicled Mr. Schwarzenegger's rise to fame as a champion bodybuilder in the 1970's, circulated a book proposal six years ago that quoted the young man expressing admiration for Hitler.

The book proposal presented what it called verbatim excerpts from the filming of "Pumping Iron," in which the actor said he admired Hitler because he "came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being a good public speaker."

Mr. Butler said in an interview late Thursday night that he had found original transcripts of the interviews and that Mr. Schwarzenegger went on to say of Hitler, "I didn't admire him for what he did with it."

Mr. Schwarzenegger on Thursday said, "I despise anything that Hitler stands for, anything he has done, hated the Nazism, hated what was done during the Second World War."

In an interview on Friday, Mr. Schwarzenegger said he was not deterred by the last few days.

"Before I went into the race, everyone came to me and said, `Arnold think about it,' " he said. "They're going to throw everything at you, that's just the way it works in politics.

"This is a discovery for me," he said. "I'm not the smartest guy in the world. No, but I'll learn when I get in there, first is the commitment. Like bodybuilding, first is the commitment."

He also said that he would continue to apologize to women and had not realized women were offended. Women gave The Los Angeles Times accounts of him grabbing their breasts or putting his hand under their clothes. "It's too bad nobody came up to me before and sat down and said I still feel hurt about what you said," he said Friday, "and I could have apologized right then and there. I never got the chance."

On the campaign trail, however, he stuck to his themes about rebuilding California. At the first rally, in Arcadia, a Los Angeles suburb, Mr. Schwarzenegger spoke to a large, adoring crowd of abolishing the recent hike in the vehicle license fee and of wistful remembrances of the California of yesteryear.

A number of law enforcement officials preceded him, denouncing a new law signed by Mr. Davis that would allow illegal immigrants to carry state driver's licenses.

A few hecklers held signs picturing the actor from his bodybuilding

days in a pose reminiscent of the Nazi salute.

Nearby, Representative Darrell Issa, the man who bankrolled the recall petition drive, said: "It's getting to the point that if you had a youth, you're disqualified from office. Only career politicians who never had a life need apply."

Mr. Schwarzenegger's wife, Maria Shriver, a member of the Democratic Kennedy clan, also vouched for him. "I believe he's handled himself in this situation in the best possible manner," she told reporters after a campaign appearance. "He apologized and that's courageous."

She said she had met thousands and thousands of women who had worked with her husband who had told her, "He has been an extraordinary gentleman."

Mr. Schwarzenegger drew support from Republicans campaigning at his side, including Rudolph W.

Giuliani, the former New York mayor, and several members of Congress.

Some of them called the late campaign disclosures about Mr. Schwarzenegger the work of Democrats. "These people are doing anything they can to hold onto power," said

Representative David Dreier, traveling on the campaign bus with reporters. "He has apologized. He's a changed man."

Sozobe,

So feckin' what? I mean that earnestly. I can't comprehend for the life of me the seemingly pathological obssesion Americans have with frivolous scandal.

Sexual harassment is not frivolous.

I don't know, and don't much care, what the truth is about Mr. Schwarzenegger. I'm never going to have to consider him as a candidate in any election here. But sexual harassment is a criminal offence here, and I take that very seriously.

Here's one reason why "liberals" should attack Arnie, and his pal Ken Lay, with every means at their disposal:

ARNOLD UNPLUGGED
> It's hasta la vista to $9 billion if the Governator is selected
>
> by Greg Palast
> Friday October 3, 2003
>
> It's not what Arnold Schwarzenegger did to the girls a decade back that
> should raise an eyebrow. According to a series of memoranda our office
> obtained today, it's his dalliance with the boys in a hotel room just
> two years ago that's the real scandal.
>
> The wannabe governor has yet to deny that on May 17, 2001, at the
> Peninsula Hotel in Los Angeles, he had consensual political intercourse
> with Enron chieftain Kenneth Lay. Also frolicking with Arnold and Ken
> was convicted stock swindler Mike Milken.
>
> Now, thirty-four pages of internal Enron memoranda have just come
> through this reporter's fax machine tell all about the tryst between
> Maria's husband and the corporate con men. It turns out that
> Schwarzenegger knowingly joined the hush-hush encounter as part of a
> campaign to sabotage a Davis-Bustamante plan to make Enron and other
> power pirates then ravaging California pay back the $9 billion in
> illicit profits they carried off.
>
> Here's the story Arnold doesn't want you to hear. The biggest single
> threat to Ken Lay and the electricity lords is a private lawsuit filed
> last year under California's unique Civil Code provision 17200, the
> "Unfair Business Practices Act." This litigation, heading to trial now
> in Los Angeles, would make the power companies return the $9 billion
> they filched from California electricity and gas customers.
>
> It takes real cojones to bring such a suit. Who's the plaintiff taking
> on the bad guys? Cruz Bustamante, Lieutenant Governor and reluctant
> leading candidate against Schwarzenegger.
>
> Now follow the action. One month after Cruz brings suit, Enron's Lay
> calls an emergency secret meeting in L.A. of his political
> buck-buddies, including Arnold. Their plan, to undercut Davis
> (according to Enron memos) and "solve" the energy crisis -- that is,
> make the Bustamante legal threat go away.
>
> How can that be done? Follow the trail with me.
>
> While Bustamante's kicking Enron butt in court, the Davis
> Administration is simultaneously demanding that George Bush's energy
> regulators order the $9 billion refund. Don't hold your breath:
> Bush's Federal Energy Regulatory Commission is headed by a guy proposed
> by … Ken Lay.
>
> But Bush's boys on the commission have a problem. The evidence against
> the electricity barons is rock solid: fraudulent reporting of sales
> transactions, megawatt "laundering," fake power delivery scheduling and
> straight out conspiracy (including meetings in hotel rooms).
>
> So the Bush commissioners cook up a terrific scheme: charge the
> companies with conspiracy but offer them, behind closed doors, deals in
> which they have to pay only two cents on each dollar they filched.
>
> Problem: the slap-on-the-wrist refunds won't sail if the Governor of
> California won't play along. Solution: Re-call the Governor.
>
> New Problem: the guy most likely to replace Davis is not Mr.
> Musclehead, but Cruz Bustamante, even a bigger threat to the power
> companies than Davis. Solution: smear Cruz because -- heaven forbid!
> he took donations from Injuns (instead of Ken Lay).
>
> The pay-off? Once Arnold is Governor, he blesses the sweetheart
> settlements with the power companies. When that happens, Bustamante's
> court cases are probably lost. There aren't many judges who will let a
> case go to trial to protect a state if that a governor has already
> allowed the matter to be "settled" by a regulatory agency.
>
> So think about this. The state of California is in the hole by $8
> billion for the coming year. That's chump change next to the $8
> TRILLION in deficits and surplus losses planned and incurred by George
> Bush. Nevertheless, the $8 billion deficit is the hanging rope
> California's right wing is using to lynch Governor Davis.
>
> Yet only Davis and Bustamante are taking direct against to get back the
> $9 billion that was vacuumed out of the state by Enron, Reliant,
> Dynegy, Williams Company and the other Texas bandits who squeezed the
> state by the bulbs.
>
> But if Arnold is selected, it's 'hasta la vista' to the $9 billion.
> When the electricity emperors whistle, Arnold comes -- to the Peninsula
> Hotel or the Governor's mansion. The he-man turns pussycat and curls
> up in their lap.
>
> I asked Mr. Muscle's PR people to comment on the new Enron memos -- and
> his strange silence on Bustamante's suit or Davis' petition. But
> Arnold was too busy shaving off his Hitlerian mustache to respond.
>
The Enron memos were discovered by the
> Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights, Los Angeles,
> www.ConsumerWatchdog.org
> ============================================

What this brings to mind more than Bill Clinton, for me, is Bob Packwood.

Yeah. Packwood lost his career. Clinton skated.
The NOW has got a lot of nerve to address Arnold, when they giggled and remained stoic behind Clinton.

Plenty of CEOs lost their jobs due to sexual harrassment--while Clinton groped and fondled to his heart's (dick's) desire. There was an unbelievable precedent set for Clinton-- no one should be able to complain about sexual harrassment now... One standard should apply to all.

Why was the "This is between me and my wife" excuse OK for Clinton, and not for Packwood, Arnold...

FINAL DIRT PUSH TAKES TOLL; CONCERN FOR MARIA'S HEALTH
http://www.drudgereport.com/as4.htm

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SAT OCT 04, 2003 15:01:37 ET XXXXX

FINAL DIRT PUSH TAKES TOLL; CONCERN FOR MARIA'S HEALTH

A late barrage of negative reports directed at Arnold Schwarzenegger and his race to be governor of California are taking a toll on wife Maria Shriver, campaign insiders tell the DRUDGE REPORT.

"She is rail thin and has been suffering bouts of light-headed dizziness... she refuses to address it," one source said on Saturday.

One reporter covering the campaign for a local Los Angeles TV station watched as Shriver appeared on the verge of fainting backstage at a recent event.

"Her physical condition needs immediate attention," the on-air reporter, who asked not to be named, told DRUDGE.

MORE

Photographs show Shriver stressed, yet maintaining grace under fire as accusations against her husband fly from nearly ever direction.

NEW YORK TIMES Op-Ed Queen Maureen Dowd is planning to title her upcoming Sunday column 'WIN ONE FOR THE GROPER.'

Dowd will write: "It was no surprise on Friday that Mr. S was backing off his promise to release those 'Springtime for Hitler' outtakes from George Butler's 1977 documentary "Pumping Iron." No dummy, he knew years ago his 'Nazi stuff' could be trouble. He bought up the incriminating evidence, 100 hours of histrionic interviews, for a mil, and worked with the Simon Wiesenthal Center, giving it a mil in guilt gilt."

MORE

London's DAILY MAIL on Saturday unloaded new shocking allegations by biographer Wendy Leigh, under the headline 'DARK SIDE OF ARNIE.'

The 4,000 word story makes this week's LOS ANGELES TIMES splash on Arnold's alleged womanizing look G-rated by comparison.

"I have spoken exclusively to a woman who was subjected to a terrifying assault by Arnold when they were working together on one of his films," Leigh writes.

Leigh does not name the woman, "as she still works in Hollywood and is petrified of repercussions."

"'I worked on a film with Arnold in the years after his marriage to Maria Shriver,' Leigh quotes the woman as saying. "'We were in the studio and he followed me into the women's toilets.

"'It was scary as he is such a big, tall man. He grabbed me from behind and picked me up off the ground -- I was airborne. He wanted to have sex with me. He said: 'Come on, let's do it. You know how much I want you. I want to feel your t**s and see if they are real.' He clamped his hand on one and wouldn't let go. He had his arms around me. I kept saying: 'No, no, no.' I was trying to get away from him, and he was trying to hold me."

The DAILY MAIL report was not to be made available online, publishing sources said.

Leigh, who wrote the 1990 book "Arnold: An Unauthorized Biography," raises publicly, for the first time, unsubstantiated claims that Arnold fathered a love child with an airline stewardess.

"'I haven't eaten or slept for two days since a reporter from the Los Angeles Times called at my door and asked me about it," the woman [named in the DAILY MAIL] tells Leigh. "'There is a picture out there and they say that my son looks like Arnold. But he looks like my husband. It is incredibly hurtful for people to be saying these things about my family.'"

Leigh, refusing to stand down, closes her story by adding: "On Monday, in the second part of this series, I will reveal the truth about his vicious contempt for the very fans who will be voting for him next week."

Developing...

Clinton skated? I think that's rather debatable.

And he went down (so to speak) not for the Paula Jones accusation, but for Monica Lewinsky. I don't think anyone's contesting that was consensual? Beyond Paula Jones, I can only think of Gennifer Flowers, and that was again consensual.

In terms of NOW, when I was trying to refresh my memory about accusations of sexual harassment against Clinton, I came across this:



http://www.gargaro.com/1998/sexual_harassment.html

That's hardly giggling and remaining stoic.

Let me ask this... if we assume that a pattern of actual sexual harassment DID take place, should it be ignored? Is the issue that you (sofia, Craven) don't believe the allegations, or that it shouldn't matter?

It was till the election. I presume it was less important to you before?

It was when Clinton was accused of it.

I guess it's frivolous enough to be a political tool.

I will say that this is new to me but evidently not news... it seems that a lot, if not most, of these harassment charges were already on record before Arnold went into politics.

It's not like I have ever been a huge Arnold fan, but it does bother me that a huge stink wasn't made before it became a political issue. Boycotts of his movies/ business interests (Planet Hollywood), etc.

I have been looking for Bill Clinton stuff and not coming up with much yet, to my surprise. The Paula Jones case went to court, but she dropped it and settled.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/pjones/pjones.htm

Did you support the call to impeach Clinton for his sexual harassment and subsequent lies?

kinda amusing that americans can get embroiled over a politico's sex life moreso than his political talents.

Amen, political ad hominem seems to be more important than their policy.

Just as I don't care about what Clinton did I do not care about what Arnold has done. I do not want Arnold for governor because I do not want to further the Republican vicory over America. A politician's personal failings are not relevant to me unless they are failings that translate into bad policy.

I think Arnold's failings could easily translate to bad policy.

Again, the impeachment was about Monica. I don't have the same kind of problem with consensual sex as with sexual harassment.

Is this about Arnold's sex life? Groping people in public, as they resist, knowing he could get away with it... is that about his sex life?

Would you care if he raped someone? The line is somewhere... I draw it at sexual harassment.