Without politics involved, I would agree with Singh, why not? In the real world, I have my doubts that this is possible, but for the purposes of debate, I am willing to accept that it could happen.
Sometimes, things are not what they seem to be -- and people are not whom they say they are.
Frank, whatever do you mean?
ingredients for the ideal religion:
1. a single all-powerful all-knowing all-loving creator with no gender or race.
2. a politically correct scripture with lots of stories with morals and great philosophical insight but subject to change.
3. a centralized heirarchy made up of presbyters, bishops, archbishops, and a pope/patriarch/president. roughly equivalent to mayors, governors, presidents/prime ministers, and 1 international president/prime minister.
4. bishops are elected by the presbyters of his area, archbishops are elected by the bishops of the area, and the big guy is elected by the archbishops. all using instant runoff voting.
5. the clergy has God-given authority.
6. changes to theology can be made by a 2/3 majority of the bishops.
7. clearly defined jurisdictions.
8. clergy is salaried and there is financial transpancy.
9. initiation rituals similar to baptism/confirmation. once at birth and once at the age of 18. and promotion rituals to higher ranks after that.
10. a creation story that incorporates the big bang and evolution but also the creator's love for man.
11. an afterlife consisting of heaven and a temporary hell or purgatory so there is perfect justice.
12. a prophet from each of the 10 most populous nations of the world at least one of whom is a woman and all of equal importance.
13. emphasis on works instead of faith.
14. a very short weekly ritual followed by social events or volunteer work.
15. benefits such as healthcare, life insurance, etc... for members and their families.
16. a symbol of the religion and official hats, jackets, t-shirts, etc...
17. fellow members are addressed as brother, sister, mother, or father.
18. large internet and college campus presence.
19. a buddy system where you're assigned a godbrother, godsister, godmother, and godfather.
20. pre and post-death rituals
21. excommunications for clearly defined grave sins
22. opposition to all forms of violence
An ideal religion requires the existence of a real, honest-to-goodness deity.
Since none have turned up to date, would you care to discuss the ingredients of an ideal belief system?
Terry wrote:An ideal religion requires the existence of a real, honest-to-goodness deity.
Since none have turned up to date, would you care to discuss the ingredients of an ideal belief system?
A Religion supposed to be a set of beliefz only I think...
cavfancier wrote:Without politics involved, I would agree with Singh, why not? In the real world, I have my doubts that this is possible, but for the purposes of debate, I am willing to accept that it could happen.
What politicz got to do with Religion ? Dont you think that Religion is a very personal thing ?
Any religion that emphasize tolerance so as not to result in conflict and don't practice converting (which will often result in conflicts). Let religion be a free choice for all. Of course one should explain if one has a misconception of another religion. Also, I think a good religion should also improve a person's life, or the whole humanity itself.
Religion should be a very personal thing, but organized religion is completely fraught with politics, I find it difficult that anyone can't see that.
cav- Definitely agree. To me, there have been more travesties perpetrated in the name of religion, due to its politics, than it is worth!
cavfancier wrote:Religion should be a very personal thing, but organized religion is completely fraught with politics, I find it difficult that anyone can't see that.
Cav has said it. Look at ye110man's list. It seems to me religion requires human judgement, and that is where the politics enters...
Almost all of them ascribe 'power' to humans--and #21 really gets under my skin. No religion is apolitical--humans are fallible and biased. Ipsofacto--religion is fallible and biased.
ye110man's list bothers me because it is clearly biased towards reforming Christianity, a currently existing religion. An 'ideal' religion should be something completely new, like Esperanto was in it's day. Esperanto never took off either, but hey, universality of language and morality is still a noble pursuit. IDEAL Singh suggested that religion should simply be a set of beliefs, presumeably agreeable to the entire world, which isn't a bad idea. It removes the influence of an established 'church' and allows people to 'choose' for themselves. However, when was the last time anyone chose to read a Gideon's bible in a hotel room over room service, a mini-bar and cable porn? I mean, I'm sure some do, but let's face it, without a clergy to preach the message in some way, and a structure of some sort to worship, and rituals to focus the mind and the message, it just can't be religion, and ergo, we are back where we started.
cavfancier wrote:Religion should simply be a set of beliefs, presumeably agreeable to the entire world, which isn't a bad idea. It removes the influence of an established 'church' and allows people to 'choose' for themselves.
Agreed... But I am really confused that you all keep on defending the usage of Ritualz...
What Ritaulizm has to do with a Religion...?
Can without Ritualz we can not concentrate on One True God ? What kind of Ritualz are we talking about. ?
Baptism, sprinkling, the hurdles of 'joining', confession, the rules of excommunication or maintaining good standing with the religion, following the political edicts from the Pope, or Mullah, or leader... Following the rules that set your religion apart from other religions...
Conformity. (and edited to add and emphasize) Exclusion.
Sofia wrote:Following the rules that set your religion apart from other religions...
Thatz the purpose of Ritualizm ?
What do you think the establishment of ritualism serves?
It seems like mindless indoctrination to me. Training, rather than teaching... Repetitive practices. What is your answer?
The Perfect Religion
1) Treat others as you would have them treat you.
2) Believe that there is a greater power than you. (God, some other god with a different name, or no name, the collective spirit of humanity...)
3) Realize you can commune with your god where ever you are.
4) Believe that all humans are equal. (For those, who may not realize #1 covers this.)
i guess it depends on your defination of "ideal."
in my list i used membership as a measure of a religion's success so i concentrated on what would appeal to the masses and keep the religion unified.
the political aspects reduce the chances of conflict within the religion.
initiation rituals give members a sense of belonging or accomplishment. a link to all other members worldwide and those that came before you. other rituals give people something tangible to believe in. it's where the natural meets the supernatural.
a few other ideas to add to my list...
23. the idea that evil is an internal struggle not an external force like satan.
24. both contemporary and traditional (hymns or chants) music to bring out that spiritual high.
I think that for most people the concept of a "religion" is that it is a jointly shared set of beliefs.
With that most of us are famaliar with rituals of one sort or another from any religion we've ever seen but the purpose of rituals is either as an offering to a diety or as a method of passing on the ideas/concepts of the religion to others.
Without rituals of some sort there are only very limited ways to pass on the "religion". It becomes dilluted and no longer is a set of jointly held beliefs.
ye110man's listings look like as very highly organized religion concept where the others are much less so.
