correct verbs to be used.

I am not sure about the "dimensions of a refrigerator" being "straightforward". Did you mean "measuring a refrigerator"? That might be either straightforward or complicated, but the dimensions themselves are just figures.

Hi Contrex

I mean that the dimensions of a fridge are complicated in that they are not so simple as the dimensions of, eg an aquarium, which is L x W x H. I understand that the length, width and height of a fridge are not the same as those of an aquarium.

I hope it is clearer now.

Not really. My fridge has these dimensions: height 838 mm width 480 mm depth 560 mm. Save for the fact that depth is used instead of length, I do not see that these are more complicated than the measurements of an aquarium.

You have to look at what a speaker might be envisioning, Ms Tan. Certainly, the normal neutral would have the following:

I thought that the dimensions of a refrigerator were straightforward in the sense it was simple to understand, but it's quite complicated.

Now imagine what might happen to the speech off a speaker who envisions,

I've always thought / I [always] thought that the dimensions of a refrigerator ________ straightforward in the sense it _____ simple to understand, but it___ quite complicated.

Thanks, Contrex.

Thanks, JTT.

To make sure I have understood your reply, I have filled in the blanks below. Please tell me if the verbs used are correct. If so, I have got your message.

1. I've always thought that the dimensions of a refrigerator are straightforward in the sense it is simple to understand, but it is quite complicated.

2. I [always] thought that the dimensions of a refrigerator were straightforward in the sense it was simple to understand, but it is quite complicated.

1. I've always thought that the dimensions of a refrigerator are straightforward in the sense it is simple to understand, but it is quite complicated.

2. I [always] thought that the dimensions of a refrigerator were straightforward in the sense it was simple to understand, but it is quite complicated.

OK i'll jump in here.

In sentence (1) you are describing a situation that existed in the past, (you thought something was simple) , but you now acknowledge in the second clause of the sentence that in the present you realise that it is complicated.

Therefore the previous situation is in the past, it is terminated, it is complete, and you should use the past perfect.

The dimensions are plural and you use "it" (singular) in the second clause. This creates a mismatch.

Dimensions are neither complicated nor simple, they are just numbers. You need to resolve this. I know you have ignored my remarks about this.

I had always thought that the matter of the dimensions of a refrigerator was straightforward, but it is quite complicated.

Sentence (2) looks like AmE to me. I shall refrain from commenting.

I had always thought that Sun Yat-Sen was Japanese, but now I know he was Chinese.

However, if the situation which existed in the past still exists in the present, we use the simple past tense.

I have always thought that it was wrong to beat children. (Implication: I still do now.)

I have always taken care not to offend my mother-in-law.

I had always taken care not to offend my mother-in-law until I became divorced.

That may or may not be true, Contrex. There's nothing that unequivocally tells us that the situation existed in the past. The present perfect often carries within it, a meaning of "up to now".

Certainly, the past perfect could be used but we'd have to know more about the time issue.



I assert that you shouldn't be making this judgment. I'm quite sure that the question being asked relates to language/grammar, not to one's opinion about what is difficult or not.



I will. For NaE, either the present perfect or the simple past could be used. The difference is how important the speaker feels the action is to now. BrE is much more likely to use the present perfect with the appropriate time sequence.



These are not the simple past, Contrex.