Native American Customs - Help Needed

checking it out

ewwwww. I know something about native 'mericans, but not that.

http://www.iusb.edu/~wrobbins/R160/chaponeguide.html

I've had some exposure to Navajo traditions, but haven't heard of this ever having been practiced. The Navajo never got involved in rites of passage like the sun dance either.

I'm not sure that any American Indian tribe routinely cut off fingers as a sign of mourning. Films are not a good source of reliable historical information. However, even if one tribe did have such a custom it is unlikely that practice was widespread. American Indians are not homogenous set. Customs and beliefs vary widely from tribe to tribe, though similarities might exist within language families, or regions. There are many parallels between Navajo and Apache customs (Athabaskan speakers, both of whom arrived in the Southwest around the same time), and between the New Mexico Pueblo People and the Hopi (esp. Zuni and Hopi who probably have shared ancestry). Shoshone and Commanche shared believes and customs, but the neighboring Plains tribes had beliefs entirely their own. Tribal customs and beliefs common in New England varied from those in Southeastern United States. There are some beliefs that do seem common across most tribes, i.e., Creation Myths, and the relationship between Man and Nature seem to be similar.

Hi bermbits -- what grade level are your students?

I've never heard of that kind of mutilation in any legends, either.....

Hi - my students are juniors. We saw the movie as a companion to the excert from the book they're supposed to be reading. I remember reading years ago that the author did do extensive research in her writing of the book.

"A Man Called Horse" was about Arapaho, wasn't it. They practiced the sun dance, which was at least as brutal as cutting of the odd finger.

I could not find anything about dismemberment but Indians did take scalps.

That was another little tradition not adopted by the Navajo, Joanne. Maybe there is a connection here?

I think the Navajo, Hopi, and Havasu were much more peaceful than the Northern tribes such as the Cheyenne, Arapaho, Kiowa, Ute and Souix. But I am no expert that is for sure. The tribes of Northern California were hunter gathers only as well. But then look at the Aztecs and Maya in S. America, those tribes were way vicious with human sacrifices and such.

The Navajo are most closely related to the Apache, and were some of the most feared raiders in Northern New Mexico before being "pacified" by during the Kit Carson era. Carson, who had earlier been regarded as a friend to the Indians, is today probably less popular among Southwestern Indians than Columbus. Thousands died in a long march supervised by Carson, and his methods of "pacification" were murderous.

The Navajo, known today for their silver and weaving, were once primarily nomadic raiders. The Navajo regard huge tracts of Northern Arizona and New Mexico as their homeland, though the Hopi and Pueblos would not agree. Animosity has long existed especially between the Hopi and the Navajo. The Navajo have been highly successful with livestock, especially sheep. Today they are a long way from their historical roots.

The Hopi are more closely related to the Pueblo Peoples, and have a history of settled subsistance agriculture. Like many agricultural people, they tend to avoid violence whenever possible. Hopi villages tend to be located in good defensive locations. Navajos tend to be more solitary and move relatively often from sheep camp to sheep camp.

The Havasu don't have a history of violence, but their cousins the Mojave made passage through their lands risky right up into the mid-19th century.

Joanne, I don't think you'll receive a more balanced and sober response than that of Asherman. IF I were to venture a GUESS--and assuming the datum in question is accurate (I know little about Native Americans)--I would venture the interpretation that the loss of fingers served as a constant reminder to women of the loss of their males, and perhaps as emblems of their enhanced status due to those losses/sacrifices. How romantic, but you asked.

I spoke with a friend who is a Nez Pierce, I expect to maybe know something by Monday if I'm lucky.

JLN that would be so romantic, losing a finger or two to honor your mate because he was a great warrior you could possibly gain status in the tribe through his accomplishments - what is a finger or two where status is concerned.

Nor have I ever heard tell of this practice. But the Native Americans have ever been an exceedingly spiritual people, and there have been many other creeds who have indulged in self-mutilation, flagellation, etc.

As for scalping, heck, the Brits were notorious takers of scalps. Still are, if my missus is anyone by whom to judge. For hasn't she scalped me many's the occasion with unconscionable demands on my time and talents, such as ironing my own aprons, for instance. Mind you, I'm not here seeking condolence ... simply pointing out that hair-raising activities are practiced by otherwise civilized races even in this day and age.

I always understood that Navajos were from a more aggressive/nomidic history. But, I'd not heard pof the chopping off of fingers. As others have said, I'm no expert.

Asherman's essays are along the lines of what I learned in anthro classes.

I believe it was the Crow portrayed in the movie/book.

If I am not mistaken, it was the "white man" who "taught" the Indians to scalp.

The Vow to the Sun God has since been outlawed.

as an aside yesterday was the anniversary of the sand creek massacre in colorado when Colonel Chivington attacked and killed 150 elderly, women and children of Arapahoe and Cheyenne peoples who had already surrendered. after butchering the women for body parts to be paraded in the streets of Denver, Chivington was admonished by Courts Martial. until yesterday there has been a monument at the state capitol noting the "victory". This massacre is noted to be the worst aside from Wounded Knee and his barely acknowledged in our history.