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between each chair/the chairs

 
 
Reply Mon 2 Mar, 2009 09:02 pm
Leave a space of two centimetres between each chair/the chairs.

Which phrase in bold should be used?

Many thanks.
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 749 • Replies: 9
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 01:54 pm
@tanguatlay,
I'd say that either would work, Ms Tan. The situation may have some bearing on the choice.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 02:58 pm
@JTT,
Unfortunately, I cannot agree with JTT that either will do. Nothing can be "between" one (each) chair. The word "between" as used here means "in or into the space which separates two places, people or objects".

You could talk of leaving a space of a certain size between each chair and its neighbour, or between each chair and the next, or between each pair of chairs.
tanguatlay
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 03:49 pm
@contrex,
Hi Contrex

Are you saying '... between the chairs' is wrong?

Thanks.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 04:35 pm
@tanguatlay,
tanguatlay wrote:
Hi Contrex

Are you saying '... between the chairs' is wrong?

Thanks.


No.

I am not saying that. I am saying that "between each chair" is wrong.

"Between the chairs" is fine.

JTT said that both phrases were correct. That is not true.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2009 05:15 pm
@tanguatlay,
Quote:
Leave a space of two centimetres between each chair/the chairs.


Quote:
Unfortunately, I cannot agree with JTT that either will do. Nothing can be "between" one (each) chair. The word "between" as used here means "in or into the space which separates two places, people or objects".

You could talk of leaving a space of a certain size between each chair and its neighbour, or between each chair and the next, or between each pair of chairs.


I initially thought that I couldn't agree with myself either, Contrex, but now I'm pretty sure that I can, agree with me that is. This is so commonplace and the reason it's commonplace is that there is no possible meaning that can be derived save for two chairs, which amounts to one each.

Results 1 - 10 of about 14,700,000 English pages for "between each".

There's the book,

Between Each Breath by Adam Thorpe

the song,

Between Each Tear by Connie Smith and this,

Quote:

Kenneth G. Wilson (1923"). The Columbia Guide to Standard American English. 1993.

between each, between every

Between can be followed by a singular noun (He changed his shirt between every inning), but this use is idiomatic, appropriate at the Conversational and Informal levels, rather than at the Oratorical and the Formal, which always prefer the full logic of between with plural nouns (between innings) or the more explicit after each inning.

http://www.bartleby.com/68/29/829.html


For 'between each person',

Results 1 - 10 of about 21,300 English pages for "between each person".

'between each chair',

Results 1 - 10 of about 484 for "between each chair".

Even UK region only for 'between each' yeilds,

Results 1 - 10 of about 460,000 English pages for "between each".

contrex
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 02:01 am
@JTT,
So if enough people are wrong, they're right?

Anyway, in your own quote we can see that it is idiomatic and informal American English. Tanguatlay (and I) are both British English speakers.

Quote:
this use is idiomatic, appropriate at the Conversational and Informal levels, rather than at the Oratorical and the Formal



JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 12:36 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
So if enough people are wrong, they're right?


You're still fixated at the right/wrong level, Contrex. It isn't a matter of right and wrong, it's what's appropriate to different registers. People, teachers, who can't grasp that simple fact have no business giving advice on language because, way way too often, they simply repeat the old canards and facile arguments taken from simplistic prescriptive grammars and style manuals.

A few quick searches on Google-UK region shows a fair frequency of "between each level"; "between each person".

Now I'm not stipulating that this is as common in the UK as it is in NA but regardless, it's an exceedingly common and sensible collocation, one that no one misunderstands.

contrex
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 02:10 pm
@JTT,
I am not fixated at the right/wrong level. I just think that answering a "right/wrong?" question with a "you can use both" response, just because the ungrammatical, informal choice is widely tolerated in certain parts of the world, is not helpful. We are here to help the questioner, not to show off.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Mar, 2009 05:34 pm
@contrex,
Quote:
I just think that answering a "right/wrong?" question with a "you can use both" response, ...


It is also the part of being a teacher to steer students away from spurious notions. Just because an ESL student asks the question in this fashion doesn't mean a responsible teacher should answer in an irresponsible fashion.


Quote:
just because the ungrammatical, informal choice is widely tolerated in certain parts of the world, is not helpful. We are here to help the questioner, not to show off.


Show how it's ungrammatical, Contrex.

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