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Are You Ready For Fantasy Baseball - 2009?

 
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2009 08:00 pm
@spendius,
spendi, meet the story of Eli.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050925/news_1s25nflcol.html

(if you were a race, you would be the 24 at LeMans)
Ticomaya
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Sep, 2009 09:49 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Quote:
But one can also say it's ridiculous that the team with the biggest bankroll gets the "best" players.


Of course you can say it. You can say anything. But it's the policy of UEFA. It makes the Champion's League that much better and that is the major annual competition in Europe. In the world too. It has important cultural implications.

If you say so. But the average American couldn't care less, and wouldn't know what you were talking about if you were to mention "Champion's League."


Quote:
What happens when the "best" player, I assume from college games, doesn't wish to play for the team that picks him.

Then he doesn't sign a contract with that team. I believe the team that drafts the player holds his rights until the next draft.

Quote:
Why are you so reticent about doing a longish post explaining it?

I'm not.

Quote:
I'm often told that my posts are incoherent and I read them over and they are just as simple as I tried to make them.

I've often thought your posts were simple.

Quote:
Maybe the American attention span snaps at more than a line and a half and I have to take the blame seeing as how Americans cannot have faults. And from what I understand of your major sports they deal in short plays with relaxing intervals to give voice to the sponsor. Maybe that's where you learn to only concentrate in quantum spurts.

Sorry ... you lost me at "blame."
0 Replies
 
ElStudHoncho
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Sep, 2009 05:10 pm
Gooooo00000 Tico.....with you all the way! Also, good luck in the playoffs.....
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 06:45 am
@Rockhead,
Rockie--I'm replying to this but it is taking me awhile on account of how interesting I find this general subject.

As you might expect I am going into bat for Eli.

So, prepare for an essay.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 09:06 am
@Rockhead,
Thanks Rockie. I read that with interest. Sport fascinates me because it places men in extreme situations. It's Pavlovian.

Mr Magee's article expresses what are quasi communist viewpoints. "Equalize competition" indeed! The whole point is competition. And Eli was correct to assert his rights on the restraint of trade issue. Why should he go and live in a backwoods like San Diego. And more to the point why should his WOG (wife or girlfriend)?

The same sort of fatuous arguments were put forward about retaining amateurism in tennis and athletics and rugby union and they are all in the dustbin now.

Quote:
Let us consider what the NFL would be had not Commissioner Bert Bell in 1936 acted to initiate a college draft with the order of selection based on the inverse order of the previous season's standings. Bell's thrust was to equalize competition, which is the be-all and end-all of what the NFL represents. Franchises should be enabled to improve themselves. They should not be locked into mediocrity, or worse.


That looks like drivel to me. Elderly fuddies sat on their arses shuffling papers about telling the players where they have to work and making subjective judgments about who are the best college players and ranking them in little lists. And with no money of his own on the line. Nothing but the urge to order people around.

And where would the NFL be had not Commissioner Bert Bell in 1936 acted to initiate a college draft? If you are going to consider that matter you really ought to do so and not just pass on as if nobody is noticing that you are not considering it at all. The NFL would have evolved to survive and prosper or gone under to allow something better to replace it. Like soccer say. And you might be favourites to win the World Cup in South Africa by now.

Where does this assertion about locked in mediocrity come from? What a load of crap that is. The US must have its share of people with sporting talent who will bend their backs to excel and be admired and profit.

Suppose the best law graduates were directed to the worst law firms and, if one presumes a reverse operation, the worst ones to the best law firms.

Quote:
Franchises should be enabled to improve themselves.


That's writing for writing's sake. Wasted words that prove to warn that he not busy being born is busy dying.

Quote:
It would be a league of haves and have-nots.


So?? Are haves and have nots not acceptable then? Blow me down with the draught from a Bunnie's tail. Haves and have nots is the dynamic energy of creative prosperity I was brought up to believe. No doubt Mr Commissioner was a have. And a silly moo.

Quote:
With David Neft of New York City, one of the NFL's most eminent historians, I discussed my thinking. His judgment is similar to mine.


That sort of thing just makes me laugh. Decoded, it means Magee thinks like an "eminent historian" (an assertion) and is thus a pretty eminent thinker himself or, at the least, his thinking is similar to that that of eminent persons. The anti-IDers on the evolution threads, who have gone quiet lately, often indulge themselves in that manner.

Quote:
Neft advanced the point that players want to serve winning teams. Were college players free to choose where they could pursue their professional futures, inequities among the teams would be inevitable.


Jeepers creepers! The league table and the college rankings are about nothing else other than inequity. So are the matches.

Quote:
Manning, then, hit at what the NFL stands for


At what Neft, Magee and Ball say it stands for maybe. So did the tennis players who took on the authorities. He took up the torch for professional sportsmen to decide where they work and how to make their choice popular with the public. As everybody else is allowed to do.

They are trying to cover up a basic fault in your game because the forward pass renders it non-exportable and thus unable to strut the world stage and that being jingoistic and All American Ball Player type tough guy type about it somehow abolishes this flaw. And being allowed to handle the ball in a game called football is plain silly. Rugby players don't use their feet much in a game. It's almost all handling. And they have to use the back pass. It shows patience. The only "try" (a touchdown) here that shows impatience is a result of an interception.

So once you allow the forward pass and the handling of the football your game cannot help being as it is. And with all the substitutes you allow every able-bodied male can be in the team, and their relatives and neighbours go to see them play and stuff some sat-fat and guzzle some bevvies, and most of them hardly run as far as one might run for a bus before giving up and with all the inevitable stop/starting to allow time for the sponsors and for the congregation to congratulate themselves on being American, and with the padding and the head gear the player's personalities being a bit alienated and all, and, I say, with all of that it's "provincial" and unsuited to globalisation tendencies. Three of our top clubs are owned by Americans and another by a Russian. The Arabs have another. They meet people at the big matches.

And it has to be made sneaky so that the other side don't know where the ball is which leads to the congregation not knowing either. And if you're in a pub and the lights are reflecting on the screen and you can't hear it for the racket and you're fending off a floosie trying to wheedle a free drink it looks like nothing that was ever seen before in the whole memory of man.

Quote:
The draft's basis was acceptable to young Manning's father and to his brother, but not to him, and he worked his ploy. He was aware that the Chargers, having been involved in the Ryan Leaf matter, could not risk the public relations disaster that would have attended them squandering the ranking choice in the draft on somebody who could choose not to play.


What Eli's Dad and brother have to do with it I can't imagine. Who knows what he was aware of? That all seems a bit speculative.

Quote:
but to do that would have been to chance getting nothing from the draft's No. 1 choice.


They should get nothing for finishing last. Fancy giving them a better choice than 5th last. They should get relegated and the top team in the next league down replace them. They look like they are trying to protect a monopoly to me.

Quote:
. The NFL is a lesser thing when its college draft is made meaningless.


That's another assertion. It's donkey's years since I heard of this draft system and think it's as ridiculous now as I did then.

Quote:
He was saying that the Chargers were not good enough for him. There is no other way to view it.


He is perfectly entitled to say that. Magee has accused him of being egotistical so he might as well be egotistical. There's not a lot of point in being called egotistical if you are not egotistical. Sportsmen are egotistical.

Quote:
The example you have established has shaken the foundations upon which it rests.]/quote]

Magee is no Darwinian judging from that. And he probably thinks he is.

Touchstones are important. Eli might be one.

Ticomaya
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 12:17 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Why should he go and live in a backwoods like San Diego.

You've never been to San Diego, have you Spendi?
On the other hand, I agree he should be free to choose whether to sign a contract, or not sign a contract.

spendius wrote:
And where would the NFL be had not Commissioner Bert Bell in 1936 acted to initiate a college draft? If you are going to consider that matter you really ought to do so and not just pass on as if nobody is noticing that you are not considering it at all. The NFL would have evolved to survive and prosper or gone under to allow something better to replace it. Like soccer say.

Sounds like an assertion from you. In your world, soccer is "better" than American football. And while you believe that to be true, it of course does not make it so. And you know this is said by one who has never played American football, and has played soccer at a competitive level since I was just a pup.

spendius wrote:
Suppose the best law graduates were directed to the worst law firms and, if one presumes a reverse operation, the worst ones to the best law firms.

Okay, suppose that were to occur? I mean, if we are going to consider the matter, we really ought to do so and not just pass on as if nobody is noticing that we are not considering it at all.

But even if we were to presume that allowing the "best" law graduates to be free to choose to work at the "best" law firms is the "better" plan ... it does not necessarily follow that it would be "better" to allow the "best" football players to choose to work for the "best" football teams. The fundamental difference of opinion between you and those who would believe the present draft system is superior, is you disagree with the NFL's philosophy of forced parity. Yet, the assertion is made that such parity makes the NFL a superior product. You disagree, but again, that does not make your view on the subject the correct one.

spendius wrote:
They are trying to cover up a basic fault in your game because the forward pass renders it non-exportable and thus unable to strut the world stage and that being jingoistic and All American Ball Player type tough guy type about it somehow abolishes this flaw. And being allowed to handle the ball in a game called football is plain silly. Rugby players don't use their feet much in a game. It's almost all handling. And they have to use the back pass. It shows patience. The only "try" (a touchdown) here that shows impatience is a result of an interception.

Well, I don't know whether the forward pass renders the NFL "non-exportable," but I do know that I don't care. Yes, that's me being jingoistic about it. You might think being allowed to "handle the ball in a game called football" is silly, but it's permitted in the rules of the game.

And how silly is cricket? I mean, there's absolutely no crickets in that game, that I can see. And the guy pitching the ball isn't called a pitcher, like he is in baseball. No, he is a "bowler" because he "bowls" the ball to the batsman ... so why don't you call this sport bowling? And why are some games called "test cricket"? Is one game a test and another isn't?

And how silly is soccer? A game where only one guy can use his hands? How silly is that? And why do you call a soccer field a "pitch"? Nobody's pitching anything.

spendius wrote:
So once you allow the forward pass and the handling of the football your game cannot help being as it is.

And it's just fine the way it is. I'm not aware of anyone clamoring to change the rules to abolish the forward pass, or forbid the use of hands. You might not have noticed, but football is pretty popular over here.

spendius wrote:
And with all the substitutes you allow every able-bodied male can be in the team, and their relatives and neighbours go to see them play and stuff some sat-fat and guzzle some bevvies, ...

Okay, you disagree with allowing substitutions. That, again, is a fundamental difference in philosophy. You think a sport is "better" if you cannot substitute off the field. I remind you that because you think it better does not make it so.

And let's see here ... you are choosing to criticize this sport because people go to watch them play, and eat and drink when they do? Let's take a quick look at the typical soccer fans over in England, shall we:

http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4950/violencehooligans.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6486/hooligansm.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2203/1949094hooligans.jpg
http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5645/hooliganq.jpg

Yes ... English soccer fans are MUCH better.

spendius wrote:
... and most of them hardly run as far as one might run for a bus before giving up and with all the inevitable stop/starting to allow time for the sponsors and for the congregation to congratulate themselves on being American, and with the padding and the head gear the player's personalities being a bit alienated and all, and, I say, with all of that it's "provincial" and unsuited to globalisation tendencies.

And if it is unsuited to globilization? What's your point? I might just as well say soccer is unsuited to import to the US because you can't use your hands, there is very little scoring, there are no breaks so I can run to the bathroom while I'm watching it, and with all the little pansy diving and rolling around clutching your ankle like you're really hurt but you're not and we all know you've just going to run back on the field when they dump you off that little stretcher over on the sidelines.

But don't think soccer hasn't caught hold over here. Little girls can play soccer, and it's one of the most popular sports for little girls over here.

spendius wrote:
Three of our top clubs are owned by Americans and another by a Russian. The Arabs have another. They meet people at the big matches.

I'm having trouble deciphering your point.

spendius wrote:
Quote:
The draft's basis was acceptable to young Manning's father and to his brother, but not to him, and he worked his ploy. ...

What Eli's Dad and brother have to do with it I can't imagine.

I don't know if you said that because you think Eli's his own man and capable of making decisions without the counsel of his family, or you just have no idea who Payton or Archie Manning are.

spendius wrote:
They should get nothing for finishing last. Fancy giving them a better choice than 5th last. They should get relegated and the top team in the next league down replace them. They look like they are trying to protect a monopoly to me.

Wouldn't allowing the best players to choose to the richest team who could pay them the most scratch have the effect of perpetuating a monopoly? I fail to see how you can on the one hand endorse allowing that to be the rule, yet complain about protection of monopolies.

But, again, what this boils down to is your difference in philosophy about this whole relegation nonsense. When are you going to see the light and finally come around to clear thinking on this issue?

spendius wrote:
Quote:
. The NFL is a lesser thing when its college draft is made meaningless.

That's another assertion. It's donkey's years since I heard of this draft system and think it's as ridiculous now as I did then.

Oh, that's an assertion, huh? As opposed you your statements that soccer is "better" than football, that the forward pass is a bad idea, as is allowing the players to freely substitute, use their hands, hide the football, use pads and helmets, and allow the worst team to get the "best" player. None of those are assertions, are they now?
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 12:19 pm
Meanwhile, in the playoffs ... in what was looking like a blowout yesterday, the Gushies have come back, and have cut deeply in my lead.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 01:40 pm
@Ticomaya,
You see Tico--you can do it when prodded.

I presume Eli thought SD a backwoods. Or his WOG. Not me. I have no idea. Cal lives there so it has one attraction.

I never said that soccer is better in my world. The whole world is saying it. And you're being left out. That's what I meant.

My thing about the law firms was a rhetorical question. It doesn't need considering. But what happens to NFL if Commissioner Bell doesn't bring in the draft rule does need considering.

And I never claimed that my view was correct. I'm arguing--not laying down the law. And Eli busting the rule is proof that somebody agrees with me.

The ones who made the assertion are the ones who brought in the draft and support it so obviously they will claim they have produced a superior product. Like GM were doing. They are comparing their product with nothing.

The NFL looks to be non-exportable. It's been tried here but it's no soap. And you should care Tico. It's really provincial not caring where the world is going. You could end up not caring about the UN. Or NATO.

The origin of the word cricket is unknown. It wouldn't be called bowling because there's batting as well. Test cricket is more testing than any other cricket. It's gruelling. And it tests a lot of things.

I know soccer is "pretty popular" in the US too but perhaps you are a bit nervous about entering the fray seriously. Big fish/ little pond. Isolationism.

But it will come I think.

I don't disagree with allowing substitutions. But it gets abused. It started for injuries but it has developed. In soccer only three are allowed. And in cricket substitute fielders are allowed but not to bat or bowl.

We all deplore the sort of behaviour your carefully selected pictures show. Or most of us at least.

My point about football being unsuited, selected out, for the global market is that it is costing you money and prestige. ( Okay you have nukes.)

And it's not "pansy diving". It's gamemanship. And there are a lot of genuine injuries.

My point about multi-millionaires buying our top clubs is that it shows that some people over there know which way the wind is blowing and are putting their dough on it. Beckham and Ronaldo sell gear internationally like Tiger Woods does. Which of your football players can do that?

The reason little US girls like soccer is because your ladies team are champs. If your men's team were champs the little lads would play it more. I hope you weren't trying to smear soccer as sissy. That would be a cheap shot. I know two 5 year-old girls who do karate. They have idiotic parents mind you.

I think there's a good chance that Eli is his own man.

Allowing teams to hire who they want does not necessarily perpetuate monopoly. And other factors contribute to the effect. No relegation definitely does. There's no light to see on that. The last few matches of the season for the bottom half of the table are basically unmotivated except maybe to lose and get bottom spot and first choice of the draft.

I'm not making assertions. I'm arguing. Trying to promote US soccer.





Ticomaya
 
  0  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 04:29 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
You see Tico--you can do it when prodded.

Of course I can.

Quote:
The NFL looks to be non-exportable. It's been tried here but it's no soap. And you should care Tico. It's really provincial not caring where the world is going. You could end up not caring about the UN. Or NATO.

If you knew me at all you'd know I don't care about the UN, except to the extent I wish it didn't exist.

Quote:
My point about football being unsuited, selected out, for the global market is that it is costing you money and prestige.
'
But it is what it is. The forward pass rule is not going to change. So as far as I can tell, you really aren't pointing out anything toward a positive. More just identifying the things about football you don't like.

Quote:
And it's not "pansy diving". It's gamemanship. And there are a lot of genuine injuries.

True, but that's not what I'm talking about. I've gone down "easily" many a time when the opportunity arises. But I don't grab my extremity and pretend I'm about to die. That's what disgusts me.

Quote:
Beckham and Ronaldo sell gear internationally like Tiger Woods does. Which of your football players can do that?

Not sure why I should care if they can or can't. And I don't.

Quote:
I hope you weren't trying to smear soccer as sissy. That would be a cheap shot.

No, I wasn't trying to smear soccer as sissy. I've played for over 30 years, and I well know it's not a sissy sport.

But it is popular with little girls, nevertheless. Wink
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 05:36 pm
@Ticomaya,
Hey Tico-- have you seen Adebayor celebrating his brilliant goal against the club he was transferred from recently under acrimonious circumstances.

He got a yellow card for it. It goes under the rule about aggravating the away team's supporters.

And the thanks of all the editors of the sport's pages in tomorrow's newspapers.

His stamping on Robin van Persie's head was adjudged an accident.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Sep, 2009 06:41 pm
Meanwhile, back on Fantasy Baseball (baseball is the one with a spherical object vs the football, which is more of an inflated ellipse). Gargamel is whipping the 'Necks, but it could be close if the stars align. Between us, we have 9 ... I say 9 ... SP's Sunday...so far.
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 01:26 pm
RJB's wicked scheme didn't quite work, and the 4 top teams are in the semis (the Witches of Ipswich barely made it).

I get to play Tico.
I just hope that, in the remote case he inadvertently drops, say, Lance Berkman or Matt Holliday, and I happen to pick'em, he won't go year after year crying like a baby.



fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 01:30 pm
And, to pìss off everyone but osso, yet another PFM video!

McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 01:41 pm
Well, ending in a tie was rather a bit of a let down.

I do not like some peoples use of rotating pitchers. I know it's allowed by the rules and I have the same ability to do so, but that just isn't in the spirit of fantasy play for me. You get a team and barring injuries or outstanding players becoming available you play the team you have.

Should that be allowed next year, I do not think I will be signing up to play. Otherwise, it was a fun year and I enjoyed keeping track of my team and pulling my hair out by some players.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 01:50 pm
@fbaezer,
Thanks for the PFM minutes, fb.
0 Replies
 
George
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 02:51 pm
@McGentrix,
I owe you an apology, then.
I didn't realize you felt that way about it.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 03:23 pm
@George,
Part of why I enjoy all this yahoo fantasy sports business is the opportunity to study different players and try them out. I do know that some stick to the team they got the day of the draft unless some major injury occurs and that's fine with me - just not my interest. Some of my changes have been dreadful in either baseball or football, but on occasion I've hit a nascent jackpot. I'm probably the person who switched players the most this last baseball season, though I haven't confirmed that lately. The process has intensified my learning, which is what I'm involved in this for, besides the great camaraderie.
0 Replies
 
Gargamel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 03:29 pm
@McGentrix,
McGentrix wrote:
I do not like some peoples use of rotating pitchers. I know it's allowed by the rules and I have the same ability to do so, but that just isn't in the spirit of fantasy play for me. You get a team and barring injuries or outstanding players becoming available you play the team you have.


I agree with McGentrix to an extent.

One compromise next year, to possibly appease both those for and against pitcher streaming, is to balance the risks vs. rewards. As it stands you are ostensibly rewarded in 3 categories (and potentially 5 if your WW pitcher throws a CGSHO) and penalized in 2 for establishing a rotating cast of nobodies.

A solution could be acheived by limiting the number of starts per week, or add another stat--like K/9, K/BB, home runs allowed, etc.--that rewards those savy with their draft picks and wise to pitchers heating up on the WW.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 04:09 pm
Gee, I didn't know this was an issue. I saw an article on Yahoo by one of their staff writers claming that SP streaming didn't really work.
Gargamel had 114 roster moves this year, Osso had 100 and then George and Tico had 75 each.
I furiously threw players overboard in my playoff match last week with Gargamel, trying to gain points in pitching. I failed. He matched me. But I thought it was fun.
I can live with any rules and, in my consolation match this week with McGentrix, will make no roster changes.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Sep, 2009 04:11 pm
@Gargamel,
What is WW?
 

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