27
   

Is This Cartoon Racist?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 09:15 am
@maporsche,
If you think 535 images leap into the minds of those who see this cartoon, rather than the sole image of the President, i suggest you're living in La-la Land. Or, rather, that you've stuck your intellectual fingers in your intellectual ears and are loudly shouting "La la la la, i can't hear you!"
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 09:38 am
Ah yes, even though there is nothing in the cartoon to relate the dead chimpanzee--obviously the same chimpanzee that was in the news last week--to President Obama, some among us insist that the chimpanzee cannot possibly be related to the news last week but rather it must mean Obama. He is a black man; therefore we must treat him as a black man and not a man. Of course for the next eight years any reference to a monkey or chimpanzee or any other ape must be considered politically incorrect because our President is a black man. And that isn't racist?

President Reagan had barely announced his candidacy for President before the pundits were connecting him to images of chimpanzees probably because of the Reagan movie "Bedtime for Bonzo".

For eight long years, President Bush has been unkindly lampooned as a monkey or chimpanzee.

http://bushorchimp.com/images/pic86.jpg

http://bushorchimp.com/images/pic55.jpg

http://bushorchimp.com/images/pic67.jpg[/

http://bushorchimp.com/images/pic11.jpg

http://bushorchimp.com/images/pic30.jpg

http://i.pbase.com/t1/90/78990/4/55894307.MIAGWlikearock.jpg

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/themes/chimpy/images/900.jpg

http://greatparanoiac.files.wordpress.com/2006/04/bush_chimp.JPG

http://www.internetweekly.org/images/bush_chimpanzee_art.jpg

http://www.allhatnocattle.net/bushofafricas.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/thechief1984/bush_chimp.jpg

And even Hillary


But oh my God. Our President is black. And somebody used a chimpanzee in a cartoon! It doesn't matter that the cartoon didn't target President Obama. We must declare it racist and it must not stand!

Does anybody beside me see how insulting the President's defenders are being when it is THEY who connect President Obama to the chimpanzee in that cartoon?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 09:42 am
Jeez, how dense can you guys be?

Just b/c there's a plausible explanation for something does not make that explanation the truth at all. This is exactly like much of the quasi-racist **** I saw while growing up.... just bad enough to be offensive, but the cowards leave themselves an out so that when they are criticized, the right-wing can still jump to defend them.

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 09:46 am
@Cycloptichorn,
So how do you feel about the Gorilla as the Phoenix Sun's mascot. Keep in mind that there is only 1 white player on the Sun's team.
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 10:03 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
So how do you feel about the Gorilla as the Phoenix Sun's mascot. Keep in mind that there is only 1 white player on the Sun's team.

Well, in addition to Steve Nash there's Louis Amundson, Goran Dragic, and Robin Lopez. But Nash is the only one of that group currently in the starting lineup.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 10:16 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

So how do you feel about the Gorilla as the Phoenix Sun's mascot. Keep in mind that there is only 1 white player on the Sun's team.


Uh, they have several white players on their team. And there's a difference between a mascot and a picture of a crazy monkey shot dead.

Enough with this bullshit, maporsche. You know that the author of the comic was race-baiting, you're just so busy playing devil's advocate that you won't admit it.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 10:17 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I know of no public furor about a racist slant when people criticize Mr. Obama, with the sole exception of this cartoon. As for team mascots who happen to be apes, not all basketball players are black, but all the Presidents who are currently serving are black. That's what ya call yer basic no brainer. The conservative whiners are typically no brainers, so i'm not surprised.

And the cartoon says nothing about the current President.

Talk about a no-brain response.
Ticomaya
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 10:18 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Jeez, how dense can you guys be?

Just b/c there's a plausible explanation for something does not make that explanation the truth at all. This is exactly like much of the quasi-racist **** I saw while growing up.... just bad enough to be offensive, but the cowards leave themselves an out so that when they are criticized, the right-wing can still jump to defend them.

As you know, there are two plausible explanations: (1) the cartoonist was simply using a popular news story to make a comment that the Stimulus Bill might as well have been written by a chimp, and was not attempting to depict President Obama as a chimp, and (2) the cartoonist was attempting to depict Obama as a chimp.

One of these is more plausible than the other.

Since Obama did not write the Stimulus Bill, it wasn't even his idea, and the chimp was not wearing a label with the name "Obama," or even drawn in such a way to resemble Obama, it seems logical that the artist was not referring to Obama. The only basis to claim he intended the chimp to represent Obama is the fact that Obama happens to be the President. (Oh, and the fact that the cartoon happens to have appeared in a right-leaning newspaper. Had it appeared in The Nation, we wouldn't be having this discussion.)

It's interesting that you would characterize those following the more logical and plausible view as "dense."
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 10:30 am
@Ticomaya,
Ticomaya wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Jeez, how dense can you guys be?

Just b/c there's a plausible explanation for something does not make that explanation the truth at all. This is exactly like much of the quasi-racist **** I saw while growing up.... just bad enough to be offensive, but the cowards leave themselves an out so that when they are criticized, the right-wing can still jump to defend them.

As you know, there are two plausible explanations: (1) the cartoonist was simply using a popular news story to make a comment that the Stimulus Bill might as well have been written by a chimp, and was not attempting to depict President Obama as a chimp, and (2) the cartoonist was attempting to depict Obama as a chimp.

One of these is more plausible than the other.

Since Obama did not write the Stimulus Bill, it wasn't even his idea, and the chimp was not wearing a label with the name "Obama," or even drawn in such a way to resemble Obama, it seems logical that the artist was not referring to Obama. The only basis to claim he intended the chimp to represent Obama is the fact that Obama happens to be the President. (Oh, and the fact that the cartoon happens to have appeared in a right-leaning newspaper. Had it appeared in The Nation, we wouldn't be having this discussion.)

It's interesting that you would characterize those following the more logical and plausible view as "dense."


You left out the third option: the author was engaging in race-baiting. That is to say, he intentionally drew a racially-tinged cartoon in order to rile the lefties up.

Also,

Quote:

Since Obama did not write the Stimulus Bill, it wasn't even his idea


This is not exactly true.

Cycloptichorn

Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 10:38 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You left out the third option: the author was engaging in race-baiting. That is to say, he intentionally drew a racially-tinged cartoon in order to rile the lefties up.

You think that's a plausible option, do you? Drawing up a "racially-tinged" cartoon is advantageous for furthering one's career path?

Quote:
Also,

Quote:

Since Obama did not write the Stimulus Bill, it wasn't even his idea


This is not exactly true.

In what sense is it not true?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 10:49 am
@aidan,

U certainly were FORTHRIGHT, Rebecca; and articulate, too !

Did the job





David

0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 12:21 pm
@Foxfyre,
I voted for McCain and I can see this is a racist cartoon (made quite well in how you could easily interpert it either way)
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 12:25 pm
@Linkat,
Okay Linkat. Why? What is in the cartoon that makes it racist? I don't think you automatically associate chimpanzees with black people. So what did you see that made you think 'black person'?

And would you have had the same reaction if John McCain was president?
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 12:33 pm
@Foxfyre,
No, I wouldn't have the same reaction if it was McCain because McCain isn't black.

The cartoonist knew exactly what he was doing - he made the cartoon very cleverly. He knew that many would see the racial undertones and while he had an escape route as - this isn't the president (only insinutaed in a sense). It may not be obvious to you as you never experienced a racial attack. Historically African-Americans have been compared as being synonymous with monkeys. If you grew up that way being compared negatively with something, of course it would impact you and hurt.

McCain has not grown up with the sterotype so why would it have the same impact on him?

Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 12:43 pm
@Linkat,
Well I grew up in one of the most racist and segregated parts of the country and I didn't think 'black person' when I first saw that cartoon. I don't associate black people with primates any more than I associate anybody else with primates.

I think given the heavy emphasis of that chimpanzee plus the stimulus package in the news last week, the cartoonist would have used that imagery no matter who was in the White House. For any of us to declare a different motive just because the current occupant of the White House happens to be black simply doesn't wash on the face of it.

Could the perception that the dead chimpanzee was symbolic of Barack Obama be due to the fact that the perceiver sees black people in that way? Absolutely not you say? Those who don't care for such a characterization might wish to be a bit more charitable towards a cartoonist simply using the news of the day to make a cartoon, more especially so when HE didn't make such an association.

(I still think the cartoon in bad taste but because of the tragic incident directly related to the dead chimpanzee that had absolutely nothing to do with anybody's race.)
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 01:52 pm
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:

No, I wouldn't have the same reaction if it was McCain because McCain isn't black.

The cartoonist knew exactly what he was doing - he made the cartoon very cleverly. He knew that many would see the racial undertones and while he had an escape route as - this isn't the president (only insinutaed in a sense). It may not be obvious to you as you never experienced a racial attack. Historically African-Americans have been compared as being synonymous with monkeys. If you grew up that way being compared negatively with something, of course it would impact you and hurt.

McCain has not grown up with the sterotype so why would it have the same impact on him?




Linkat is correct; the artist knew what he was doing when he made the cartoon.

For you bunch to pretend that he didn't is farcical; it implies an almost complete ignorance of the history of racial p0litics in America.

Cycloptichorn
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 01:56 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Okay, based on what you claim to know for certain, I accept that if YOU use a chimpanzee in a cartoon, YOU would be doing so intentionally as a racial slur. I don't accept that this particular cartoonist was doing that, however, but then I can't look into the heart and motives of people with the same clarity that you claim.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 02:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Linkat is correct; the artist knew what he was doing when he made the cartoon.

For you bunch to pretend that he didn't is farcical; it implies an almost complete ignorance of the history of racial p0litics in America.


I bet the cartoonist was counting on people getting their panties in a wad over it for the free publicity.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 02:05 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I would take that bet on the other side since I think given that the chimpanzee AND the stimulus package led practically every headline last week, the cartoonist would have used that imagery regardless of who was in the White House.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Feb, 2009 02:13 pm
@Ticomaya,
Certainly it says something about the current President, Mr. Brain Dead Poster Boy. Obama has been in office for one month. The overwhelming focus of attention on his fledgling administration has been the stimulus package. When it is discussed in media sources, they don't discuss the 535 authors or potential authors in the Congress, they discuss Mr. Obama's stimulus package. You are free to bury your head in the sand, or to take snide positions by ignoring the obvious--don't expect me to buy into your bullshit, though.
 

Related Topics

2016 moving to #1 spot - Discussion by gungasnake
Black Lives Matter - Discussion by TheCobbler
Racism? - Question by The UPS Man
Is 'colored people' offensive? - Question by SMickey
Obama’s Black Skin Privilege - Discussion by coldjoint
Obama, a Joke - Discussion by coldjoint
The Day Ferguson Cops Were Caught in a Bloody Lie - Discussion by bobsal u1553115
The ECHR and muslims - Discussion by Arend
Atlanta Race Riot 1906 - Discussion by kobereal24
Quote of the Day - Discussion by Tabludama
 
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/18/2022 at 04:07:43