The prayer for wisdom

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Apisa asks if the old testament has any applicability to Christian ethics; try this:

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1KI 3:2 Only the people sacrificed in high places, because there was no house built unto the name of the LORD, until those days.

1KI 3:3 And Solomon loved the LORD, walking in the statutes of David his father: only he sacrificed and burnt incense in high places.

1KI 3:4 And the king went to Gibeon to sacrifice there; for that was the great high place: a thousand burnt offerings did Solomon offer upon that altar.

1KI 3:5 In Gibeon the LORD appeared to Solomon in a dream by night: and God said, Ask what I shall give thee.

1KI 3:6 And Solomon said, Thou hast shewed unto thy servant David my father great mercy, according as he walked before thee in truth, and in

righteousness, and in uprightness of heart with thee; and thou hast kept for him this great kindness, that thou hast given him a son to sit on his throne, as it is this day.

1KI 3:7 And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.

1KI 3:8 And thy servant is in the midst of thy people which thou hast chosen, a great people, that cannot be numbered nor counted for multitude.

1KI 3:9 Give therefore thy servant an understanding heart to judge thy people, that I may discern between good and bad: for who is able to judge this thy so great a people?

1KI 3:10 And the speech pleased the LORD, that Solomon had asked this thing.

1KI 3:11 And God said unto him, Because thou hast asked this thing, and hast not asked for thyself long life; neither hast asked riches for thyself, nor hast asked the life of thine enemies; but hast asked for thyself understanding to discern judgment;

1KI 3:12 Behold, I have done according to thy words: lo, I have given thee a wise and an understanding heart; so that there was none like thee before thee, neither after thee shall any arise like unto thee.

1KI 3:13 And I have also given thee that which thou hast not asked, both
riches, and honour: so that there shall not be any among the kings like unto thee all thy days.

1KI 3:14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my
commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.

1KI 3:15 And Solomon awoke; and, behold, it was a dream. And he came to Jerusalem, and stood before the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and offered up burnt offerings, and offered peace offerings, and made a feast to all his servants.

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@gungasnake,

Yes, I think so!

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@Frank Apisa,

You might notice that OT writers and other writings of the same age view dreams as somehow containing real information or as providing some sort of real contact with the spirit world; that is a contrast to our own world. We pretty much view dreams as the brain unwinding itself, and the contents of dreams as pretty much bullshit.

Again I recommend Julian Jaynes' "Origin of Consciousness" as a first key to that sort of thing.

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

You might notice that OT writers and other writings of the same age view dreams as somehow containing real information or as providing some sort of real contact with the spirit world; that is a contrast to our own world. We pretty much view dreams as the brain unwinding itself, and the contents of dreams as pretty much bullshit.

There is a difference. Besides that...did you have any other point here????

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

There is a difference. Besides that...did you have any other point here???? ..

Yes, in a way, but it would take a lot of time and it's the sort of point which is best digested in small pieces.

The point is that the old testament and its authors cannot reasonably be judged by modern standards. The books of the old testament and literature contemporary with them describe a world which is substantially different from ours, issues which no longer exist in our times, and phenomena which we have never observed.

Things like prophecy and oracles for instance once actually worked; they ceased working around or just prior to the time of Alexander. Likewise the thing with dreams. The author of the 1 Kings for instance assumes that dreams are a real mechanism of some sort and does not even try to argue the point or convince anybody of it since he also assumes that nobody on the planet in those days would argue the point.

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@gungasnake,

Quote:

Yes, in a way, but it would take a lot of time and it's the sort of point which is best digested in small pieces.

So...take it in small pieces. I'm really interested...and I'll give you all the time you need.

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The point is that the old testament and its authors cannot reasonably be judged by modern standards. The books of the old testament and literature contemporary with them describe a world which is substantially different from ours, issues which no longer exist in our times, and phenomena which we have never observed.

If you say so! I'm not sure I agree...but I'll hear you out.

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Things like prophecy and oracles for instance once actually worked; they ceased working around or just prior to the time of Alexander.

Well...if they no longer work...how do you know that? If there are no oracles or prophecy to tell you that it REALLY WORKED...where did your "information" come from?

Or is that all just a guess?

Quote:

Likewise the thing with dreams. The author of the 1 Kings for instance assumes that dreams are a real mechanism of some sort and does not even try to argue the point or convince anybody of it since he also assumes that nobody on the planet in those days would argue the point.

Yeah, but ancient, superstitious people assumed all sorts of things that were absolutely wrong. The assumed the sun and moon travelled through the sky; they assumed the stars were fixed on a bowl over our heads...and all that kind of stuff.

So...really, what is your point?

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The prayer for wisdom

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