Gender Challenge: Am I a woman or a man?

@Ragman,

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Personally, I'm baffled.

and here. As am I. Ain't we got fun?

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@Montana,

Mum: Altho I don't particularly relate to either. I was my mum until I was 8. then dad til 14 Hated both til 18. Mum til mid twenties. fell out with both. Hate my dad. You have to love your mum tho, it's biological. Thats vaguely it. It sounds nuts. Maybe it is. Maybe its normal; at different stages in my life I needed different things.
On a psychological note, anyone who loves their father more than their mother generally has massive Manson like issues. For teachers, Girls are only motivated by their fathers expectations. Girls by their mothers. There's a lot of research. the top 50 richest businesswoman all either hated their fathers, or had absent ones. For parents. Alcoholic males have high achieving children, women don't.

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@Fountofwisdom,

Fount said:

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I wear make up that is cruelty free. It is subtle. and I don't wear it daily. I certainly wore a lot more make up when I was younger. I used to be a goth. (Emo in America I think).

And you also said that you're closer to fifty than forty. So were you a goth when you were in your thirties?
Cause when you were highschool or university age - I guess you'd have been the equivalent of what we in America called a freak or a stoner- I guess - honestly I can't thnk of what the late seventies/early eighties equivalent of a goth was...that hadn't even been thought of yet had it? Unless you guys were into totally different stuff over here. I'd have thought punk- which yeah - you could wear make-up- lots of mascara and eyeliner for sure.

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@Fountofwisdom,

Would you rather watch tv or read?

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@Frank Apisa,

I am trying to give a full answer. Consider this. A Mexican moves to America. His children consider themselves American, but some people treat them as aliens. As I stated. I am second generation immigrant. I consider myself English. I spent a university gap year in Spain. Plus 6 months in France. My family were gypsies so had no clear national identity. A bit like being Jewish I guess. I have a cultural identity, but not a national one. I just don't feel tying yourself to a patch of land helps. I guess the native Americans might have a similar view. You view the world in more simplistic terms than me. I view more shades and complications. Thats probably why we find comminication hard. I am trying mostly not to lie.

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@aidan,

The Punk/Goth look started in the late 70's in northern California.

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@Ragman,

This could be the A2k version of Lost or twin peaks. I promise no second series.

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@kfagan42,

punk and goth are related? I didn't know that. Thanks for the information. So was the goth thing a west coast phenomenon for a long time? I don't remember seeing any goths on the east coast - and I grew up right outside NYC- until the late 80's or early 90's,

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@Fountofwisdom,

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Any bloke who thinks carnal knowledge is evil shouldn't visit Sheffield. He probably wouldn't have a good time in sex city.

Is there something special about Sheffield? I have been there a time or two and it looked pretty up-and-down-the-track to me. Don't you think the "evil" is what makes it dangerous and exciting. Leafy suburban evil is not really all that exciting. It's not Gothic.

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Didn't the classical Greeks think that women were so inferior that the only true love could be between men?

Some of them I have no doubt. It's the same here.

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Certainly they were partial to meat soppositories.

As are many others.

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Plato believed in showing young boys "the kingdom of heaven." They believed the body beautiful was the male body.

Odd then that Hesiod and Homer took so much trouble over the irresistable charms of the female. They wouldn't be dangerous if they were resistable now would they?

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i think that if you want to partake in carnal pleasures then upsetting the gender of your desiring is a bit daft.

Oh--I don't know. Richard Burton and Liz Taylor seemed to have throve on such things. They even did a movie about it. The daring recommendations of the avant garde Agony Aunts soon wilts.

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I would happily lie and cheat if it got me what I wanted. Thats Darwin for you.

Which is an excellent reason for not exposing young people Darwin.

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And the plot to most Shakespeare.

And usually punished in the last act.

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Personally I think a bloke who wants to dominate a woman isn't necesarily happy.

Obviously.

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People who have loads of sex tend to smile more.

How do you define "sex". It is a developmental process. Professor Greer explained that.

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Put it this way, I have no problem with people wanting sex from someone attractive. Any other reason for having a relationship cheapens it.

You are at odds with Jane Austen then?

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But there has to be more too.

Money or benefit in kind? Stick to Darwin.

"And she fakes, just like a woman
And she breaks just like a little girl."

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@Fountofwisdom,

Don't think you are a liar.

When you gonna tell us you are a woman????

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@aidan,

England was far advanced. The followers of Siouxsie Sioux called themselves goths and wore black make up, including nail varnish and lipstick. Followers of bands like the Cocteau Twins, The Birthday Party, This Mortal Coil, possibly Echo and the bunnymen, etc wore black and called themselves goths. Plus bondage gear. I was a lot less mainstream. I was basically a "soft "punk form 1977. Went gothic in 1980 partly for sexual/relationship reasons. Ironically was a secret fan of Bob Dylan which would have been fashion suicide at time. Never play Bob Dylan now, also for sexual reasons. Probably gave it up gradually in mid 80's altho also liked Soft Cell. I was born in 1962. Perhaps Goth means something else in America? Was not a goth in 30's was trainee accountant.

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@kfagan42,

Read.

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@Fountofwisdom,

Yeah, someone mentioned earlier that it was called punk in America before it became goth and I remember it going as far back as the 70s.
Went to a punk club in Boston when I was only around 16 and since I was born in 64, that would have put it at 1979-80.

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@Frank Apisa,

Are all people in England English?
My nephew lives in England and he's American.

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@Fountofwisdom,

WTF! you stated... "My family were gypsies so had no clear national identity. A bit like being Jewish I guess. " What does this mean?

How do you equate being Jewish and having no national identity? You make some mighty odd statements, but this one REALLY needs some explaining!

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@aidan,

I saw plenty of Goths in the early '90s in and around greater Boston, Mass. However, I knew of punks and punk style in the late '78 to early 80s.

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@spendius,

As you know, I prefer erotic romping on windy moors more my bag than sucking up to the rich bloke eyelash fluttering falseness of Austen. I'm not a spokesperson just an individual. I'm thinking Emma here, who is really a cheap hooker, but denies it to everyone including herself.
I don't knock anyone. I certainly don't knock financial security or comfort. I find honesty attractive. I don't like sex being called evil. Forbidden Pleasures are exciting,as is exploring the unknown.

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@Fountofwisdom,

Fount said: Laughing

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Never play Bob Dylan now, also for sexual reasons.

I won't even ask...although I was thinking he has sort of gotten kind of dirge-like. Not the most stimulating sound these days I guess.

Yeah- well- guess what? We're almost the same age. I guess England was far advanced, although I was more of a free spirit/hippy/freak sort so I didn't hang out with any goths, but I was always very observant and I don't even remember SEEING any goths until I was teaching highschool in the late eighties/early nineties. I don't really know what their philosophy was except to walk around looking pale and depressed.

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Was not a goth in 30's was trainee accountant.

Again, I don't know why I find this so funny - but I do...so you went from a punk/goth to a trainee accountant. What a full and varied life you've lived.
I read about the gypsy thing. Are you from what is called travel(l)er stock?
Did you live the lifestyle of a traveller? (I'll use the British spelling as we don't have the term traveller to refer to people in America).

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@kfagan42,

What the hell kind of question is that...and what does it have to do with me????

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@Fountofwisdom,

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The followers of Siouxsie Sioux called themselves goths and wore black make up, including nail varnish and lipstick.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean they were Gothic. It might just have been a gimmick milking that old standby of rebel youth. Completly under the control of record companies and TV producers.

They probably all have country houses now, vote Conservative and play golf.

1981 Dylan--fashion suicide? You were tamed.

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Gender Challenge: Am I a woman or a man?

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