Is american popular culture poisoning young british society?

@Fountofwisdom,

Are you still mad that we got away from you?

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@H2O MAN,

Mickey Mouse may indeed be black, but his appeal is across all genders and races.

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@Fountofwisdom,

In answer to my question of "how many are black"...Fount, you wrote:

Quote:

Actually it compares very favourably with America: Around 6% are black or Asian, the same proportion as your senators.

Okay...perhaps I didn't word my question clearly enough. Allow me to try again:

How...many...are...BLACK?

By the way, we have only 1 black Senator...out of a hundred, which comes to only 1%. But I suspect there are no blacks in the house of Lords...and Commons would best be compared with our House of Representatives--in which there are 41 blacks...although only 39 are voting members. That is about 9% of the House...which is, admittedly, slightly lower than the percentage of blacks in the general population..although not bad for a country gtetting so much grief from you folks over it racism.

Not for one second, by the way, am I saying that racism does not exist in our country. For certain it does. But if you know a country in which it does not exist at all...name it, and we will all applaud. I doubt England...or Great Britian as a whole will fill that bill.

But...back to the question!

How many?

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You are completely wrong about the house of lords: there are a few black lords including our top legal person. Plus Our top religious guy. Plus head of the labour unions. Shami Chakrabati head of the National Council for civil liberties and is the spokeperson for liberal views.
I dont know the exact number of black m.p.'s but this is because it is seen as largely irrelevent. I can name Bernie Grant and Dianne Abbot who were demonised as radicals. Oona King was voted "most attractive m.p." which she hated. Ketih Vaz. Paul Boetang. Basically people don't vote on racial lines. We don't even have the concept.
Remember all racial groups combined account for around 5% of the population, so the fact that England has no party leaders from racial minorities isn't to be expected. A lot of politicians are Scottish and the cabinet (top bods) has many openly gay members.
It seems to me Americans don't like full answers with context, which I gave: for instance if I had said 15 that would have meant nothing to you: you haven't a clue how many m.p.'s we have. Or their demographic make up.

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@Frank Apisa,

For information purposes only:

Quote:

The campaign group Operation Black Vote identifies 24 non-white members of the current House of Lords. There are no official figures, as questions on ethnicity have never been put to the Lords themselves. Of the 24 minority members, two are of identifiably African or Caribbean ancestry.

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@Frank Apisa,

Again for information purposes, this could be an interesting reading:

Black British

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@Fountofwisdom,

Fount, you wrote:

Quote:

You are completely wrong about the house of lords: there are a few black lords including our top legal person. Plus Our top religious guy. Plus head of the labour unions. Shami Chakrabati head of the National Council for civil liberties and is the spokeperson for liberal views.

You should be able to name exactly how many members of the House of Lords are Black...and of course, I mean racially, not Lord Black.

How many are there...and I would like their names so I can verify...since I am "completely wrong about" this.

If you want the names and districts of every black member of our congress, I will gladly furnish same.

As for the exact number of black m.p.'s...the answer was given to you. The number is 2!

Considering that, Fount, why are you spending time faulting us on our deficiencies in that area?

Quote:

It seems to me Americans don't like full answers with context, which I gave: for instance if I had said 15 that would have meant nothing to you: you haven't a clue how many m.p.'s we have. Or their demographic make up.

And don't be so sure I don't know a great deal more about your parliament and its composition than you think...or than you do, for that matter. The information is easily obtained.

I'd make a rough guess of 659 members.

Would you like me to make rough guesses about where they are from?

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Oops...the "2"...was for the House of Lords.

The p.m.'s seem still to be up for grabs. Since I can name and give the district of every black representative here in the US...why is it so difficult for you folks, who are lambasting us for our racial deficiencies, to come up with an accurate count?

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@Frank Apisa,

Because someones ethnicity is not an electoral issue. This is what I'm trying to say: I can name the interesting m.p.'s who are Black. they are from London except Keith Vaz who represents Leicester.
I think the trouble with Americans having a Black president will lead them to conclude that there are no racial divides in American society.

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@Fountofwisdom,

Fount wrote:

Quote:

Re: Frank Apisa (Post 3532334)
Because someones ethnicity is not an electoral issue. This is what I'm trying to say: I can name the interesting m.p.'s who are Black. they are from London except Keith Vaz who represents Leicester.

What exactly do you mean that "ethnicity is not an electoral issue"--and what does that have to do with what we were discussing????

If you can name the m.p.'s who are black...name them! How many are there? Name them!

Quote:

I think the trouble with Americans having a Black president will lead them to conclude that there are no racial divides in American society.

Well that is not what anybody over here is concluding...and I cannot tell you how many columns and articles have been written during the last three months that deal with the racial problems and divides that still exist. Most Americans, despite your considerable venom towards us, are intelligent enough to recognize that we have a long way to go.

But of course, someone like you has to try to rain on our parade...try to stop us from taking delight in the great strides we've taken on this issue.

If it makes your life any less dreary, rain all you want. We are still feeling good about ourselves. And I think we are justified in laughing at people who live in a country that has as much trouble in that regard as you folks do...lecturing us on it.

I guess the best thing for us to do is to try to enjoy the silliness and thank the people putting out so much effort to denigrate others.

Thanks, Fount!

I'll be waiting for those names. Let's see...you say your black population is 2%...and Commons has 650 some odd...that means you should come up with a bakers dozen of names. Heck, that shouldn't take you too long to type.

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<sound of wooshing wind. people look up> [It's a bird. It's a plane. It's Foofie]

Let me interject a thought. I believe the standard complaint one might hear from more than one Caucasian Brit is how the East End of London has so many "Pakis." I am not sure if Paki is a complimentary term?

The racial attitudes of Caucasian Brits might include, for some, strong feelings about ANY non-Caucasian, regardless of where they came from.

I do not think Britain is as inclusive a society as the U.S.A.; end of story.

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@Francis,

Francis wrote:

Again for information purposes, this could be an interesting reading:

Black British

Thanks Francis. Too bad the invective and contention continues on its own, even despite available and (reasonably) objective data, facts & analysis.

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@mav4ick,

lol my bad isnt bad at all. wait till u go to a ghetto in the southern part of america, LOL!

they have some fuckin lingo goin on lemme tell ya, or the bay area "gangstas"

HAHAHA i cant even understand them!

listen to keak da sneak, they all talk likle that

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GeorgeOB wrote:

Too bad the invective and contention continues on its own, even despite available and (reasonably) objective data, facts & analysis.

As you know, George, people are not interested in constructive debate but in getting a rise out of the others..

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Hmm...

I don't know about this. I wonder if there are issues of perception here. I'd like the Pentacle Queen to come in and voice up. This may not be as much England being "dumbed down" by America's pop culture as much as both cultures simply taking on a newer face and neither older generation being able to recognize clearly the pattern.

I keep thinking back to ebrown's post in the anti-intellectualism thread. Perhaps he is right and things are no more worse or different now than they ever have been, they simply just look different.

If things are just different and maybe our two cultures are experiencing a small amount of convergence RE language etc, perhaps it's not American pop culture as much as it's simply a product of the information age.

Phrases like "my bad" may soil some people's ears, but it's hardly a real offense. Language is about communicating ideas, and despite a person's distaste for the phrase, I'm fairly certain that when they heard "my bad," they were able to quickly understand what they were saying. Now I won't say that all colloquialisms are so transparent. If I was to talk about "ghostriding the whip" I don't think it would be readily understood, but it also wouldn't mean that I'm culturally poisoned or dumb.

A young country such as the US may feel more cavalier about it's language because it's not built on centuries of tradition and culture, and England might feel less comfortable. Either way, I'd encourage patience and an open mind.

There are rocket scientists in my generation that will put a man in space and as they watch the rocket climb, they may be inclined to say: "That's killer dude."

T
Killer Dude.
O

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@Diest TKO,

I believe the sitcom, The Big Bang Theory, on CBS on Monday night, implies scientists of your generation are less likely to use hipster phrases.

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@Diest TKO,

Here's a slant on the theory I've come up with. The sex symbols that I remember from the 70's (I've picked American ones) The Fonz, Starsky and Hutch, Chips, David Cassidy. All these were portrayed as sensitive and caring, but not camp. They were rounded human beings who had relationships.
There has been a rambofication of culture, whereby men are actually regressing in evolutionary terms. This absurd machoism is seen as aspirational, even tho it is based on aggression and violence. Certainly it doesnt promote the idea of relationships or partnerships.
In the same way discussion and debate are seen as faggy. I've had it put to me by youths that I wasn't funny, because humour is when you gather in groups and ridicule someone till they cry.
I've also been "threatened" with the slogan "put them in their place or put them on the floor. " implying that if you couldn't shut them up then violence was the solution. It was an acid rappers slogan, in the late 90's. I'm out of the loop. I don't even read mixmag.

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I remember a scene from the BBC production of I, Claudius…where Augustus bemoans the “younger generation.” My guess is that EVERY generation sees the next few generations as being polluted and poisoned…and looks for reasons why that is so.

Probably would be a good idea for a skit involving a caveman…complaining about “don’t know what is becoming of these young people!”

The truth is that young people don’t need any help being rebels"and any poisoning anyone sees in the present generation of young people is not appreciably different from the “poisoning” previous generations saw in us.

All attempts to place blame are silly…because there truly is nothing to be “blamed” for.

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@Frank Apisa,

Ah, Franck! You're talking like a rebel, poisoning our youth!!

Please, abide by the mainstream... Twisted Evil

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@Fountofwisdom,

Fountofwisdom wrote:

Here's a slant on the theory I've come up with. The sex symbols that I remember from the 70's (I've picked American ones) The Fonz, Starsky and Hutch, Chips, David Cassidy. All these were portrayed as sensitive and caring, but not camp. They were rounded human beings who had relationships.

Here's my theory. Irony, and sarcasm, and a more skeptical culture killed off that breed of "sex symobl." If Cassidy were singing "I Think I Love You" on television today, he would elicit from the ladies not longing sighs but bewilderment at his circuitous method of expressing what boils down to a desire to bang the **** out of some chick. Say what you will about today's "R&B" artists, but at least they're honest.

Then again, you've still got all these High School Musical queers (just needling you) running around. Who is that guy, Zach Efftard? Isn't he like the new David Cassidy?

1 Reply

Is american popular culture poisoning young british society?

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