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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 3 Oct, 2013 06:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Lesson to be learned.
Quote:
Lessons to be Learned From 66 U.N. Resolutions Israel Ignores

By Donald Neff
Former Time Magazine Bureau Chief, Israel
Fifty Years of Israel
Originally printed in the Washington Report in March 1993

Donald Neff has been a journalist for forty years. He spent 16 years in service for Time Magazine and is a regular contributor to Middle East International and the Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. He has written five excellent books on the Middle East.

There is a disturbing lack of historical perspective to the Clinton administration’s efforts during its first days in office to shield Israel from United Nations sanctions. Like former Secretary of State James Baker’s repeated assertion that both sides must want peace for it to occur, the Clinton-Rabin agreement ignores the sorry record of the 26 years since Israel’s conquest of the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.During that period Israel has unequivocally demonstrated that it does not want peace in exchange for territory. Its insistence on expelling Palestinians who oppose the occupation and on establishing Jewish settlements in the occupied territories are only the latest manifestations of its desire to retain them. Equally important in revealing its true policy is Israel’s successful record of resisting American and other peace initiatives over the years.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 3 Oct, 2013 08:45 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
The Palestinians DO have a real homeland, and Israel is squatting on it,

The West Bank is the Israeli homeland.

The Palestinian homeland, wherever it is, is somewhere else.


MontereyJack wrote:
which makes Israel not a democracy, but a kleptocracy.

Your anti-Semitism is repugnant.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 3 Oct, 2013 09:14 pm
@oralloy,
More anti-semites, from jewishvoiceforpeace.com.
Quote:
Home > Campaigns > Israeli Artists Condemn Settlements | Twitter | Email | Print North American and UK artists support Israelis who refuse to perform in settlements.
Israeli Artists Condemn Settlements
When some 60 leading Israeli actors and playwrights signed a letter stating they would refuse to play in the new theatre in Ariel, one of Israel's largest settlements, the attacks from Prime Minister Netanyahu, Israel's Minister of Culture and Sport and many others were swift and intense. Over 150 leading Israeli academics and writers- including Amos Oz and David Grossman- came to their defense. It was the first time such mainstream figures had drawn a line around normalizing settlements which are illegal according to international law, and which constitute one of the main impediments to a lasting peace between Israelis and Palestinians.

Inspired by their courage, and responding to a call for international support, Jewish Voice for Peace has developed a statement that has been signed by over 150 theater and film professionals representing some of the most respected and renowned artists in theater, film and television – including Four Pulitzer Prize winners, several recipients of Guggenheim Fellowships, a MacArthur Fellowship, a National Medal of Honor,and scores of recipients of the highest U.S. acting honors, including Tony Awards, Emmy Awards, Grammy Awards, Obie Awards, Drama Desk Awards, and the Oscar.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Thu 3 Oct, 2013 09:16 pm
re Oralloy:

The Paslestinian homeland is where they lived for centuries: that's what a homeland is, by definition. And that's the land where Israel now is, the land the Israelis took, without right or law or compensation, from the Palestinians.

And your attdempt to brand any criticism at all of Israel as anti-Semitism is what is repugnant. And is in fact a lie, just the latest of the many you repeatedly tell and then deny are lies.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Thu 3 Oct, 2013 09:39 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
The Paslestinian homeland is where they lived for centuries: that's what a homeland is, by definition.

The Palestinian homeland is the land that the Palestinians originate from. That is not the West Bank.

The Israelis are the people that originate from the West Bank.


MontereyJack wrote:
And that's the land where Israel now is, the land the Israelis took, without right or law or compensation, from the Palestinians.

Israel has every right to possess their own homeland.

And your misleading narrative somehow manages to skip over the fact that Israel is willing to give up the West Bank, even though it is their legitimate homeland, in exchange for peace.

If the Palestinians really want the West Bank, all they have to do is make peace with Israel.


MontereyJack wrote:
And your attdempt to brand any criticism at all of Israel as anti-Semitism is what is repugnant.

I don't brand "any criticism at all" of Israel as anti-Semitsm.

I only brand vicious false accusations against Israel as anti-Semitism.

Falsely accusing Jews of horrendous crimes has long been a trademark of anti-Semitism.


MontereyJack wrote:
And is in fact a lie, just the latest of the many you repeatedly tell and then deny are lies.

I notice your failure to show even a single thing that I am wrong about.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 3 Oct, 2013 09:40 pm
@oralloy,
Most Palestinians lived in Palestine/Israel for much longer than most Americans have lived in the US. THAT IS THEIR HOME by every definition of that word.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 3 Oct, 2013 09:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
From Wiki.
Quote:
Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times. A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.[30] Since the time of the Muslim conquests in the 7th century, religious conversions have resulted in Palestinians being predominantly Sunni Muslim by religious affiliation, though there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations, as well as Druze and a small Samaritan community. Though Palestinian Jews made up part of the population of Palestine prior to the creation of the State of Israel, few identify as "Palestinian" today. Acculturation, independent from conversion to Islam, resulted in Palestinians being linguistically and culturally Arab.[17] The vernacular of Palestinians, irrespective of religion, is the Palestinian dialect of Arabic. Many Arab citizens of Israel including Palestinians are bilingual and fluent in Hebrew.


Further proof that the apartheid of Israel is based on ignorance.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 04:11 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
My supposed wilfull ignorance is just my not subscribing to your world view, for example,.


No. it's because you're ignorant. Lot's of people don't share my world view but at understand how the world works. You know very little about anything outside your own back yard. You use lazy racial stereotypes all the time, mostly because you can understand them. Reality is just too frightening and confusing.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 04:14 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
you do not know me, as another American knows me.


CI is American, he also finds you profoundly ignorant.

I must say you're quite irritating, like a mosquito, and overall rather whiny and pathetic.
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 10:49 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Most Palestinians lived in Palestine/Israel for much longer than most Americans have lived in the US. THAT IS THEIR HOME by every definition of that word.


Good point. So, you are leaving SF, since it belongs to either Native Americans, or Spain?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 10:58 am
@Foofie,
Dumb question. We paid for our property, and have title to it. Jews are stealing Palestinian lands without payment.

BIG DIFFERENCE! You wouldn't understand such simple concepts.
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:02 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Foofie wrote:
you do not know me, as another American knows me.


CI is American, he also finds you profoundly ignorant.

I must say you're quite irritating, like a mosquito, and overall rather whiny and pathetic.


Please don't compare me to CI. His life had the tragedy of being interned during WWII, since he was Japanese-American. American Jews never suffered such tragedy. In fact, when it comes to bigotry, other ethnic groups suffered more than American Jews did. Anyway, your opinion of me is inconsequential, since you have not experienced the American character in the heartland. CI is on the west coast, and he reflects a particular brand of liberal/progressive that only became pronounced under Clinton/Obama, in my opinion. Most Americans are more conservative than I am. You are not, in my opinion, the type of Brit that many Americans relate to. My opinion, of course. Don't forget to Trick or Treat on Halloween (All Saint Hallow's Eve).

Right now, the liberal/progressives get much of the media attention. But as sure as my moniker is Foofie, can I say with assurance that the majority of America is quite conservative. Even the Catholics that live in the hinterland. They are just like WASP's, except they go to Mass on Sunday, but their politics is just as conservative. You might be viewing America through the eyes of the liberal/progressive media that gives one a false impression of the U.S. Why is the media so liberal/progressive? Sort of like the purpose of the Roman's bread and circuses, in my opinion. Mollify the masses that do not have an agrarian society to work in, nor assembly lines to work at (they went to Asia), in my opinion. So, yes, with time America may be a knock-off to your socialized society; however, it will still have the wealth of a certain class in private hands, in my opinion.
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:04 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Dumb question. We paid for our property, and have title to it. Jews are stealing Palestinian lands without payment.

BIG DIFFERENCE! You wouldn't understand such simple concepts.


Your title came from the King of Spain, or a Native American tribe. If not, my point stands.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:11 am
@Foofie,
It only stands from ignorance. The US government's, state, and local laws protects my ownership of property as it does in the majority of cases.

Palestinians in Israel do not have the same protections.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:17 am
@cicerone imposter,
Actually, only Jews are equal in Israel. According to Wednesday's ruling by Israel's Supreme Court, only Jews are recognized as members of the "Israeli" nation.
Sixty-five years after the state’s establishment, its authorities still don’t recognize an Israeli nationality independent of religious or ethnic affiliation.

Quote:
The distinction between the element of citizenship and the element of nationality reflects the state’s relative failure, ever since it was established, to grant equal treatment to all its citizens. The Supreme Court did stress in its ruling that the state was obligated to treat equally all its citizens, residents and others under its rule, but such equality has little chance of being realized as long as the state identifies itself as Jewish and maintains a preference for one group over other groups when it comes to labeling its citizens.
Source: Haaretz
Foofie
 
  0  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:19 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It only stands from ignorance. The US government's, state, and local laws protects my ownership of property as it does in the majority of cases.

Palestinians in Israel do not have the same protections.


You seem to ignore my point. Your title to property is just based on the dominance of the U.S. government, after its Manifest Destiny to the Pacific Ocean came to fruition. All you are saying is that the might of the U.S. makes your title to property right (aka, might makes right). Right now Israel has the might, and you lament that might, yet you applaud the U.S. might, so Spain doesn't nullify your title to property.
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Actually, only Jews are equal in Israel. According to Wednesday's ruling by Israel's Supreme Court, only Jews are recognized as members of the "Israeli" nation.
Sixty-five years after the state’s establishment, its authorities still don’t recognize an Israeli nationality independent of religious or ethnic affiliation.


So, Turkish babies are born in Germany, and are not citizens. At least the Israelis are being honest in their concept of a Zionist State. Germany cherry picks as to who may become a German.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:25 am
@Foofie,
It's not only about the US; most democracies have the same laws about personal property. You are pretty ignorant, aren't you. Your brain is already calcified with your own ideas about Israel's apartheid which has no defense for it outside of Jews like you!

If you bother to look at the change in the world maps based on political powers, you'll find that it has changed dramatically in the past 200 years. What we have today is a country called The United States of America with only five percent of the world population that has achieved superpower status in this world.

You fail to understand history in addition to being a hateful human who's too ignorant to continue any intelligent discussion with. I find it a huge waste of time.

I'm otta here.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:37 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
So, Turkish babies are born in Germany, and are not citizens. At least the Israelis are being honest in their concept of a Zionist State. Germany cherry picks as to who may become a German.
You really can't be so stupid, Foofie.
This ruling has been about those, who DO HAVE AN ISRAEL PASSPORT, not about those, who are born there: Israeli nationality law follows ius sanguinis in a very similar way as does the German nationality law.

But I'm glad that you are citizen of a country, Foofie, which allows everyone to get its nationalty who wants to get it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 4 Oct, 2013 11:39 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
So, Turkish babies are born in Germany, and are not citizens.
Depends on how you define it: the have two nationalties (Turkish and German) and decide at the age of 18, which one they want to keep.
Everyone living and registered here, is considered a citizen, which has nothing to do with the nationality of that person.
0 Replies
 
 

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