63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 12:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
I'm happy and glad that I'm not divided by walls and fences from my neighbours anymore, since 23 years now ...

Quite a difference between the two fences.

The Berlin Wall was to prevent people from reaching freedom.

The fence in Israel is to prevent Muslims from murdering children.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 12:41 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
The Berlin Wall was to prevent people from reaching freedom.

Yes, that's what we thin, say and know. (Actually, there wasn't just the Berlin Wall but fences and "death stripes" all along the border to the Federal Republic.

But the GDR said that they built those walls and fences to prevent "a capitalistic invasion" ...
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 12:48 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:



But the GDR said that they built those walls and fences to prevent "a capitalistic invasion" ...

not much different than Israel building a fence to enforce blockade but claiming it is to keep the killers fenced in.
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 01:46 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
not much different than Israel building a fence to enforce blockade but claiming it is to keep the killers fenced in.

Israel's fence has nothing to do with any blockade. The killers are only prevented from entering Israel. If the Palestinians want to go murder people somewhere else in the world, that fence will not impede them.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 03:15 am
In Palestine, criminal damage means death.

Quote:
A Palestinian was killed when Israeli troops opened fire on two Palestinians at the border between the Gaza Strip and Israel, Palestinian sources say.

Israel said its soldiers had shot two men who had tried to damage a metal barrier, posing an "imminent danger".


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24344695
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 04:08 am
@oralloy,
Well, that's similar to what the GDR-officials said about their walls and fences ...
oralloy
 
  0  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 04:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Well, that's similar to what the GDR-officials said about their walls and fences ...

I think any reasonably intelligent person can assess that Israel's security fence does not in any way hold Israelis inside their country against their will.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 05:48 am
Nor really a topic of this thread, but since Foofie often reders to the American Jews ...
Poll Shows Major Shift in Identity of U.S. Jews
Quote:
The first major survey of American Jews in more than 10 years finds a significant rise in those who are not religious, marry outside the faith and are not raising their children Jewish — resulting in rapid assimilation that is sweeping through every branch of Judaism except the Orthodox.
[...]
Jews make up 2.2 percent of the American population, a percentage that has held steady for the past two decades. The survey estimates there are 5.3 million Jewish adults as well as 1.3 million children being raised at least partly Jewish.

The survey uses a wide definition of who is a Jew, a much-debated topic. The researchers included the 22 percent of Jews who describe themselves as having “no religion,” but who identify as Jewish because they have a Jewish parent or were raised Jewish, and feel Jewish by culture or ethnicity.

However, the percentage of “Jews of no religion” has grown with each successive generation, peaking with the millennials (those born after 1980), of whom 32 percent say they have no religion.
[...]
Reform Judaism remains the largest American Jewish movement, at 35 percent. Conservative Jews are 18 percent, Orthodox 10 percent, and groups such as Reconstructionist and Jewish Renewal make up 6 percent combined. Thirty percent of Jews do not identify with any denomination.

In a surprising finding, 34 percent said you could still be Jewish if you believe that Jesus was the Messiah.
[...]
The survey also portends “growing polarization” between religious and nonreligious Jews, said Laurence Kotler-Berkowitz, senior director of research and analysis at the Jewish Federations of North America.


http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsdf8c5c3a.jpghttp://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/b_zpsa1c726b2.jpg
izzythepush
 
  0  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 06:23 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm not really a Jew; just Jew-ish, not the whole hog. Sir Jonathan Miller.
Foofie
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:01 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

But Foofie, I already have been offensive to Evangelical Christians for the same reasons I am offensive to Jews on this site. They both lie like rugs. None of them recognize the truth. Only what their Books tell them is truth.


So the point is, in my opinion, you still ignore the situation that 60 million Christian Zionists are not a small percentage of the U.S. population, so rehashing the old canard that the small population of Jews "control" American foreign policy is false. Sixty million Christian Zionists do vote for local and national elections. The pro-Israel stance of the U.S. might have more to do with having our tax money spent on American weapon systems, after it is given to Israel gratis. Its all about making the wealthy wealthier, perhaps. Jews, and their Christian Zionists friends may just be the modus operandi to make some U.S. corporations have a bigger profit. But, what does the average American think? Oh, just, "Blame the Jew." And, one wonders why some Jews may not think many Gentiles are deep thinkers.
Foofie
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:07 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
The Berlin Wall was to prevent people from reaching freedom.

Yes, that's what we thin, say and know. (Actually, there wasn't just the Berlin Wall but fences and "death stripes" all along the border to the Federal Republic.

But the GDR said that they built those walls and fences to prevent "a capitalistic invasion" ...


I would think the fence kept West Germans from corrupting the mentality of the East Germans. Naturally, most Germans, that were West Germans would like to think that Germans are Germans; however, some of those older East Germans do look back on the Communist days with a longing.

And, the West Germans paid a heavy price to bring East Germans into the capitalistic system, I thought. One could make an argument for West Germany having been exploited?
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:15 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
60 million Christian Zionists are not a small percentage of the U.S.


Considering the unbelievable lies that Americans will believe and considering that evangelicals are that much more gullible, looking for mass support from folks who are rabid supporters of US war crimes and terrorism is like seeking support from Nazi death camp guards and administrators.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:18 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The only statistic that is salient is the one you didn't show: the percentage of Jews in the U.S. that marry out of the religion. That is about half, or slightly more. That just means that the Jewish population is shrinking due to marriage, not how Jewish children are raised. However, it also means that there is a growing population, increasing exponentially with each generation (do the math), of Americans that will say, "I have a Jewish ancestor." The result of that will be less alienation from those that are Jews, including Israel, as a Jewish nation. That will just water down the vehement anti-Jewish rhetoric we see today amongst the "pure Goyim." And, since Jews tend to marry those from a similar socio-economic class, the future of U.S. society will likely include an upper-class that has a disproportionate number of people that have a Jewish ancestor. That might reflect a humorous situation of people from other socio-economic classes blaming U.S. policy on those upper-classes that have Jewish "roots," or some such "new anti-Semitism."

Foofie
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:22 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I'm not really a Jew; just Jew-ish, not the whole hog. Sir Jonathan Miller.


The origin of the word "Jewish" was a euphemism, since Jew was an epithet historically (and today amongst many). So, Jewish implied "like a Jew, but not quite." Like it is windyish outside. Sort of windy, but not really windy.

What is interesting is that Jewish cemeteries are usually called Hebrew cemeteries. Gentiles do not like to refer to Jews as Hebrews, in my opinion. I think it could be because they like the pejorative connotation of "Jew" and don't know how to make the word "Hebrew" just as pejorative.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:29 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
I think it could be because they like the pejorative connotation of "Jew" and don't know how to make the word "Hebrew" just as pejorative.


You like acting the victim and talking about pejorative terms, so I'll let you pick the bones out of this, which has been quite a talking point of late.

Quote:
A Jewish spokesman for the Tottenham Supporters' Trust has defended fans' rights to use chants that have been described as anti-semitic at matches.

The Society of Black Lawyers (SBL) has called for Spurs fans who chant "Yid Army" to be prosecuted.

But Daniel Wynne told BBC Sport: "I accept what the word means, but I don't find the chant offensive when used by Tottenham fans.

"In that context it is used positively as a call to arms, a badge of honour."

Tottenham's chanting of the Y-word, a reference to the club's Jewish supporters, is in the spotlight after SBL chairman Peter Herbert said unless the club or the Football Association took a stand on the matter he would report it to the Metropolitan Police.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/20270298
Foofie
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:29 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
The Berlin Wall was to prevent people from reaching freedom.

Yes, that's what we thin, say and know. (Actually, there wasn't just the Berlin Wall but fences and "death stripes" all along the border to the Federal Republic.

But the GDR said that they built those walls and fences to prevent "a capitalistic invasion" ...


I would think the fence kept West Germans from corrupting the mentality of the East Germans. Naturally, most Germans, that were West Germans would like to think that Germans are Germans; however, some of those older East Germans do look back on the Communist days with a longing.

And, the West Germans paid a heavy price to bring East Germans into the capitalistic system, I thought. One could make an argument for West Germany having been exploited?


Interestingly, politicians, be they democratic or facist, seem to get their way by appealing to German's great pride in being Germans, and should be willing to sacrifice to prevent, or vindicate, "humiliation."

Our Civil War might have been appealing to white Southerners great pride as white Southerners, and need not to be humiliated.

The point is that some groups are SO PREDICTABLE.
Foofie
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:37 am
@izzythepush,
Outside the U.S., social customs might not be directly transferable. For example, there are those that do not like the word Redskins for an American football team here. However, people often do not PUBLICLY do that which can be construed ad anti-Semitic (at least on both coasts), since many Gentiles get good utility out of the Jews living on both coasts. It might be different in Britain, or elsewhere. Don't forget, some American Jews were in theU.S., going back to the days of New Amsterdam, and are like Hebrew Episcopaleans financially. People usually don't bite the hand that feeds them. I can't answer for British Jews. They might be different is subtle ways, sociologically? I don't know anything about them. I know little about the British culture, except that they are sort of class conscious to a degree not found in the U.S.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:44 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Interestingly, politicians, be they democratic or facist, seem to get their way by appealing to German's great pride in being Germans, and should be willing to sacrifice to prevent, or vindicate, "humiliation."
Could you please explain what your "German's great pride in being Germans" has to do with the Berlin Wall, the border fences - the death zones?

Besides that, do you have any source/poll showing that "Germans are pride in being Germans"? (I mean 'generally', not among neo-Nazis or after won football matches.)
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 11:49 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
People usually don't bite the hand that feeds them.


While you always go out of your way to take great exception to the Europeans who didn't address the Nazis' actions against Jews, you now want to make excuses for yourself and others who don't point up the equally evil, the equally vicious war crimes and terrorism of the US. Why is that, Foofie?

What the US lacks in single event horror, it has certainly made up for it in longevity. What the US has done over 200 years far surpasses the evil that was Nazism.

0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Tue 1 Oct, 2013 12:19 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
The point is that some groups are SO PREDICTABLE.
I think that you lived in 1961. I did, too.
As far as I remember, the walls and fences came quite surpringly.

Okay (I hat to look it up, I admit): the "Anti-Fascist Protection Rampart" could have been predictable since late July 1961.
0 Replies
 
 

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