63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:37 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
We were never taught why those that stayed back in Germany became Germans, while those that wandered into western Europe developed their own identities?
The Sacrum Imperium Romanum (since 800) was later called Sacrum Imperium Romanum Nationis Germanicæ (since at least1512 officially).
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:45 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
In other words, the pro-Palestinean posters disregard the rockets and suicide bombings of the not too distant past, and just HARP on the continued settlement of the West Bank, implying no Arab should have to rub elbows with Jewish neighbors.


You've got a point, Foofie, I'll grant you that. Unceasing rockets into Israel must be wretchedly annoying to those who live near these sites. To that I say, STOP building settlements in the West Bank if you want consideration from outsiders!!!!!! There! That should be the answer to your rocket predicament.

Quote:
Anywhere else, this is called a changing neighborhood. It is also a double-standard, based on the implied right of Gentiles to keep Jews at arms distance, Jews being so "different."


Above you stated: "....implied right of Gentiles to keep Jews at arms distance, Jews being so 'different.' "

Oh Puhleez! Your exaggerated, emotional display of sentiment is pure theatrics! In America you would be surprised at the number of mixed marriages between Jews and non-Jews.....the number of practicing religious Jews is shrinking here, just like it is with most non-Jewish religions. It is Israel who is 100% disciplined in the use of apartheid, not the other way around and the tiny Zionist nation had made it crystal-clear it is a nation for Jews exclusively!....Palestinian refugees are not allowed back into their homes that they were ran out of in 48 or 67. Palestinian Arabs would not have minded the influx of Jews coming to Palestine from Europe, living among them, after all these different ethnic groups, Palestinian Jews, Palestinian Arabs, Palestinian Christians had lived together for millennia years without continued hostility; but at the threshold of modern Israel, the Jews' arrival intended to take back all the land once held by ancient Israel. They even had Mt. Sinai (Egypt controlled) but were persuaded to give it back by the US giving them 5 Billion annually; 3 billion for Israel's economy and 2 billion for the buildup of their military.

When Israel gets damn good and tired of rockets coming into their country then maybe they will return the land they have stolen and continue to STEAL from the Palestinians. The world is watching and waiting before it acts.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:47 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
I was taught that Bismarck unified the principalities to what is called Germany.
Quite correct. Bismarck 'persuaded' the remaining South German independent states i to 'join' the North German Confederation (of 1866).



0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:47 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:
We were never taught why those that stayed back in Germany became Germans, while those that wandered into western Europe developed their own identities?
The Sacrum Imperium Romanum (since 800) was later called Sacrum Imperium Romanum Nationis Germanicæ (since at least1512 officially).


Most Americans do not get the nuanced history in school that you are aware of. Beyond the shores of the U.S., the world is western Europe and then everyone else. And, in western Europe, in my opinion, not everyone gets up early to get to work, other than a few countries (Germany being the main one. I'll include England too).
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:50 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:

When Israel gets damn good and tired of rockets coming into their country then maybe they will return the land they have stolen and continue to STEAL from the Palestinians. The world is watching and waiting before it acts.


You sound like quite the authority on what the world has on its mind, in my opinion.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:52 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Before that there were identities based on one's principality.
Not really - But a lot more than today.

Since Luther used therm "deutsch", it certainly was common in those days:
To the Christian Nobility of the German Nation (German: An den christlichen Adel deutscher Nation) 1520
http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps51c1ffe1.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 12:58 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
... while those that wandered into western Europe developed their own identities?
We have the state Lower Saxony here, which has been a mainland of the Saxons. Angeln is still used as names for sub-districts (Middle-Anglen, South Angeln), while the former county/district Angeln is now incorporated in the Flensburg county.

The Celts just "passed" us over a period of some hundreds of years.

What others wandered to western Europe and developed their own identities there?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 01:09 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

But the question with which I am dealing is peace in that area of the world.

I have noted that Jews and Arabs got along relatively peacefully for thousands of years before the state of Israel was created there...and since that creation, they have not gotten along at all.

The existence of the state of Israel in that area has to be considered a prime cause of the friction.

Jews do indeed have a right to self-determination. But so do Arabs and non-Jews living in that area. And many of those people have vowed to continue hostility for as long as the state of Israel remains there. THAT IS THEIR RIGHT ALSO.


Just my opinion, but many a Gentile might have jurisdiction over the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, based on their historical family history. Israel might just be outside their jurisdiction; unless of course, if one is ready to rule the world, or proselytize Jesus style koom-bah-yah love ins.


Foofie, I am not being a wise-ass here, but you lost me completely with that response. I do not understand what you were getting at....at all.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 01:33 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
Oh Puhleez! Your exaggerated, emotional display of sentiment is pure theatrics! In America you would be surprised at the number of mixed marriages between Jews and non-Jews.....the number of practicing religious Jews is shrinking here, just like it is with most non-Jewish religions.


Foofie is governed by paranoia and a definite inferiority complex towards people who talk like me. I really resent having to look at my fellow countrymen to discover which of them are Jews just so I respond to his paranoid nonsense. As far as I'm concerned we're all British, regardless of colour or ethnicity, and I find it quite nauseating talking to someone who is more concerned about what makes us different than that which unites us.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 01:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Foofie, I am not being a wise-ass here, but you lost me completely with that response. I do not understand what you were getting at....at all.


I doubt Fluff does, he often lets his mouth run off without engaging his brain.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 01:38 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Foofie, I am not being a wise-ass here, but you lost me completely with that response. I do not understand what you were getting at....at all.
That's a quote ("the question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin") from Thomas Aquinas's Summa Theologica, which has been used in the Middle Ages to criticise him.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 02:40 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:

You sound like quite the authority on what the world has on its mind, in my opinion.


On the contrary, I'm hardly the "authority" on what the world has on its mind; I am an impassioned observer of world events and in particularly, the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. The effect of the EU is what has brought about the current "so-called" peace talk between the two parties, a process Israel has no intentions of carrying through. Yet, the EU might have something to say. See below:
________

Europe's tough new stance against Jewish settlements could cost Israel hundreds of millions of dollars in EU research grants, putting a hefty price tag on its refusal to stop building on lands Palestinians want for a state.

Deputy Foreign Minister Zeev Elkin suggested Friday that Israel would forgo the money rather than accept a new European Union-mandated caveat that any partnership deals with Israel do not apply to the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem, lands Israel captured in 1967.

The "territorial clause," to be written into future agreements, is part of new EU guidelines and an expression of growing dismay in Europe over continued Israeli settlement expansion.

Israel is particularly concerned about losing access to Horizon 2020, a seven-year, Europe-wide research grant program that starts in 2014 and has an estimated budget of 80 billion euros ($107 billion).

More in Link:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/09/israel-eu-deal_n_3731087.html
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 02:58 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
You've got a point, Foofie, I'll grant you that. Unceasing rockets into Israel must be wretchedly annoying to those who live near these sites. To that I say, STOP building settlements in the West Bank if you want consideration from outsiders!!!!!! There! That should be the answer to your rocket predicament.

And what sort of outside aid are you offering to Israel in exchange for this halt to settlement construction?

How exactly would you force the Palestinians to stop firing rockets?

Are you offering to bomb the Palestinians into submission with your own forces?


Moment-in-Time wrote:
It is Israel who is 100% disciplined in the use of apartheid,

Your anti-Semitism is really appalling.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
When Israel gets damn good and tired of rockets coming into their country then maybe they will return the land they have stolen and continue to STEAL from the Palestinians. The world is watching and waiting before it acts.

Whenever Israel gets good and tired of rockets coming into their country, what they do is launch a military campaign and blow up a bunch of Palestinians.

And as noted before, Israel is not stealing any land. Not only are the Israelis the rightful owners of that land to begin with, they are also openly offering to give that land up if only the Palestinians will make peace with them.

The only reason it never happens is because the Palestinians refuse to ever make peace.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 03:20 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
The effect of the EU is what has brought about the current "so-called" peace talk between the two parties, a process Israel has no intentions of carrying through.

Wrong on both counts. Israel was not the one who was refusing to come to the peace talks.

"Whatever coercion was used to make the Palestinians come to the talks" is what made them happen.

And Israel would be delighted to finally make peace with the Palestinians. When the peace talks collapse, it will be solely the fault of you and the Palestinians. Don't blame Israel for your hateful acts.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 04:35 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

Foofie is governed by paranoia and a definite inferiority complex towards people who talk like me. I really resent having to look at my fellow countrymen to discover which of them are Jews just so I respond to his paranoid nonsense. As far as I'm concerned we're all British, regardless of colour or ethnicity, and I find it quite nauseating talking to someone who is more concerned about what makes us different than that which unites us.


So why do you respond to those who nauseate you, Izzy? The Internet is filled with "Foofie" types. I pick and choose those with whom I exchange dialogue. If the poster isn't too ugly and unpleasant in disposition or temper, I can communicate with them....it's when a poster brings a visceral reaction within me that I run from such offensiveness and use the ignore feature. Religion, ethnicity, culture should not be a barrier to communicating with others and yet with some posters the message is always black and white with no shades of gray in between.

Take Advocate, for instance. With respect to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict we are worlds apart; however, take that away and I can honestly say I have nothing against this poster and extend him my best. One must not take posters with whom we respond too seriously or even their ad hominem attacks which might be more difficult to overlook. Many posters feel they have to be on the defensive out of a sense of insecurity; those who are secure will overlook their antics.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 04:48 pm
@Foofie,
This frustration would have been the same had it been with Micronesian goals. The point is that the Palestinians’ goals were being usurped for someone else’s. Christmas lights don’t figure into the equation, sorry.

Are the Christmas lights a real torment, Foofie? Have you sought help for your persecution complex?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Thu 19 Sep, 2013 05:08 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Not everything about Fluff nauseates me, just his insistence on reducing everything to crude racial stereotypes. In many ways he's a lot better than Advocate, he doesn't use the term anti-Semite like it's going out of fashion, and actually challenges Holocaust deniers like RL.

Advocate just fills out a tick box for what a Democrat voting supporter of Israel should think. He looks at Iraq and Israel as two completely separate issues, and refuses to see any crossover. This shows someone following a preselected stencil of how to behave, there's no real thinking behind it.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 08:45 am
@InfraBlue,
Wikipedia describes Operation Hiram as taking place during the 48 war, to prevent the "Arab Liberation Army" and units of the Syrian army from remaining in control of a salient into Israeli territory:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hiram
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  2  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 09:42 am
@izzythepush,
Good old Izzy! All he does is whine, which makes him quite the bore. When he is not whining, he repeats his lies about Israel and the Jews.

He comes across as a disgusting prick whom no one likes or can stand. But I guess we are somewhat stuck with him. Of course, the best course of action is just to ignore him.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Fri 20 Sep, 2013 10:13 am
@Advocate,
You're one of the most disgusting creeps I've ever come across, and quite stupid to boot. Your opinion means nothing to me.

Ah Vienna.
0 Replies
 
 

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