Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@izzythepush,

You mean the siege by Egypt, right?
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2013/08/israel-gaza-erez-karam-abu-salem-crossing.html

"Israeli Goods Enter Gaza As Egypt Tightens Siege"

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@0bserver,

That's right, since the fall of Morsi the military government is doing its best to suck up to America.

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@izzythepush,

this doesn't make sense. Obama threatens Sisi with stopping military aid if he keeps going at this rate.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/obama-weighs-egypt-aid-suspension-20156563

How is that sucking up to America? It is challenging America if anything.

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@0bserver,

The military government is at odds with the Brotherhood. Protecting Israel's borders is America's number 1 priority. As long as the government does that they'll keep their aid.

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@izzythepush,

No. You got it wrong. Sisi is protecting himself from Gaza - that's why he needs a buffer between Gaza and Egypt. How does that buffer help Israel? You are too focused on Israel like most anti-Israelis here. That's a very old record. Now the story is Arabs fighting Arabs - doesn't fit into the old paradigm, but it's a fact.

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@0bserver,

Read what you've just said. You've got a point about Sisi, but how does Israel not benefit from having Islamic radicals removed from its borders?

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

Protecting Israel's borders is America's number 1 priority. As long as the government does that they'll keep their aid.

It's true maintaining ties with the military who honors the peace treaty with Israel is very important but there are rules and there are rules. US policy stipulates if a coup takes place to topple a legitimately elected government, then US aid must stop. This is why Obama's been disinclined to refer to the military's ouster of Morsi as a coup. There are others in the US government who think aid to the Egyptian government should stop and this is led by Rand Paul, Tea Party favorite and a probable contender for president in 2016 and has suggested cutting aid to Israel. Obama can see objectively further than the congress as he's the president and feel that keeping aid to the military flowing would be a good thing and a more productive act towards keeping a peaceful region; however, with the ouster of Morsi, the future doesn't look too bright just yet; the military also realize if aid of 1.5 billion is stopped the oil rich Arab countries have promised Egypt over 12 billion dollars which would several time make up for the paltry sum from the US.

The Egyptian people want US aid to stop so they will be freer to go against Israel and help their brother the suffering Palestinian. So far they have been restrained by the military....like a bird in the hand.....scenario....the military has gotten used to the aid from the US and is slightly uneasy about relinquishing something they've been secure with since 1979. Israel is very much for the Egyptian military whom they trust to watch the borders between Egypt and Israel. This is the first time since I have been scrutinizing congress and the middle east with special emphasis on Israel, that cutting aid to Israel has actually been considered and Congress seem ready to throw Israel under the bus by placing an obstacle to continuing aid to the Egyptian government. When McCain was asked about discontinuing aid to Egypt and the effect it might have on Israel, he replied "Israel can take care of itself."

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@Moment-in-Time,

I think that's all wishful thinking. If what you say is true, it would have more media coverage.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Quote:

US policy stipulates if a coup takes place to topple a legitimately elected government, then US aid must stop.

But when the US topples a democratically elected government full US aid goes to the US brutal dictator du jour.

Have I mentioned how hypocritical y'all can be?

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@Moment-in-Time,

You will hate to hear this, but congress and the president know full well that Israel is a fabulous asset to the USA.

For the cost of a couple bombers, Israel furnishes excellent intell, a defacto base in the ME, high-tech equipment, a trading partner, the only true democracy in the ME, the protected home of Christianity, etc. Further, most of the aid to the country is used to purchase military equipment from us. Thus, the money comes back to the country.

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@Advocate,

You understand that in reverse. You need to learn some logic before you post such bull ****!

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@Advocate,

Quote:

You will hate to hear this, but congress and the president know full well that Israel is a fabulous asset to the USA.

Oh really? Advocate, I see Israel as an impediment. The US is so closely defined with Israel, whom most Arabs hate, that America is targeted as Enemy # One! One of the chief reasons Bin Ladin attacked the US on 9/11 was because of the ongoing thorn in the side of Arabs regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and our ever-growing presence in the middle east. The US allows Israel to have its Nuclear facility, as well as giving the tiny country the military edge over all she surveys in the neighborhood. Israel is the superpower in the Middle East. In many ways, the Zionist nation reminds me of the earlier European Colonizers. What springs to mind is Mahatma Gandhi's long-suffering, patience and strong determination to succeed. Walla! Gandhi won!!!!! Mandela followed in Gandhi's footsteps and brought about the fall of Apartheid. Martin Luther king followed Gandhi's footsteps as well; he has succeed in some area but African Americans still have to fight the fight. Israel will return to its 1967 borders.....sooner or later....just you wait, Advocate!!!!

Advocate wrote:

Quote:

For the cost of a couple bombers, Israel furnishes excellent intell,

So where was the mighty Israeli Intelligence pre-9/11?! Don't tell me they did not hear all the chatter regarding Bin Ladin's coming attack? Or did they know and kept quiet because they believed such an attack would cause the Dummy GWB regime to go to war and also such an attack would make the American people anxious for war....to go after the Arabs, Israel's enemies.

Advocate wrote:

Quote:

the only true democracy in the ME, the protected home of Christianity, etc. Further, most of the aid to the country is used to purchase military equipment from us. Thus, the money comes back to the country.

Israel is not a Democracy no matter how many times you repeat this lie. Israel is a greedy expansionist tiny nation whose Benefactor, the US, allows the Zionist nation to pursue its evil process....to continue taking Palestinian land. Advocate, you are wasting your energy trying to convince me of any Israeli justice because it just doesn't exist, at least with respect to the Palestinian people.

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@Moment-in-Time,

I could convince you of nothing. You are too big a hater of Israel and Jews. You are also a tremendous liar.

For instance, you imply that bin Laden would not have attacked us on 9/11 were it not for our support of Israel. But you know full well this is a lie. His big beef with the USA was our bases in ME countries, especially our base in SA. It was only later that he mentioned that he hated the existence of Israel.

Also, Bush got strong warnings that al Qaida had plans to fly airliners into targets in the USA, which warnings Bush ignored. The basis of the warnings may well have come from Israel.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

For instance, you imply that bin Laden would not have attacked us on 9/11 were it not for our support of Israel. But you know full well this is a lie. His big beef with the USA was our bases in ME countries, especially our base in SA. It was only later that he mentioned that he hated the existence of Israel.

If you will return to my post you will see I said "one" of the reasons Bin Ladin attacked the US was because of Israel. The primary reason was our bases in the Middle East. He forced Saudi Arabia to oust US bases and so the US went to Qatar and Kuwait. But the surviving underlining thorn in the Arab's side is Israel's trying to steal their land, specifically the West Bank and Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. It captured Mt. Sinai but this was given back because Jimmy Carter offered Israel 5 billion dollars annually; 3 billion for the economy and 2 billion for the military. Egypt received 2 billion annually and that's been stripped down to 1.5 billion annually

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:

For instance, you imply that bin Laden would not have attacked us on 9/11 were it not for our support of Israel. But you know full well this is a lie. His big beef with the USA was our bases in ME countries, especially our base in SA. It was only later that he mentioned that he hated the existence of Israel.

If you will return to my post you will see I said "one" of the reasons Bin Ladin attacked the US was because of Israel. The primary reason was our bases in the Middle East. He forced Saudi Arabia to oust US bases and so the US went to Qatar and Kuwait. But the surviving underlining thorn in the Arab's side is Israel's trying to steal their land, specifically the West Bank and Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights. It captured Mt. Sinai but this was given back because Jimmy Carter offered Israel 5 billion dollars annually; 3 billion for the economy and 2 billion for the military. Egypt received 2 billion annually and that's been stripped down to 1.5 billion annually

On a planet that does not get larger, real estate values just go up and up. No more bargains like Alaska. Anyway, if one looks at history, it is just different peoples, or not so different peoples, either taking land from others, or women, or slaves, or water rights, or whatever. After leaving the persona of hunter gatherers, we humans just became very territorial; speaking different languages didn't help matters.

But, to think that nations will ever stop taking islands or land from those that are living on that island or land, is just plum naive, in my opinion. It is hard-wired into our genes. Only when one gets greedy like the Nazis does the rest of the world usually take umbrage. So, in my opinion, the umbrage, regarding Israel's claiming that they have a "deed" from God, might just be related to the fact that the Arabs control oil that nations need. I think it is naive to think that the anti-Zionist concern is motivated by fair play; just self-serving concern over maintaining one's oil supply, in my opinion. Cars and winter heating do not use peat moss.

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Nice try, not historically accurate. For the past sixty years neither Israel nor the Palestinians have had any oil reserves to speak of, which makes it hard to suggest that oil had any relevance as a bone of contention. Israel drilled around 400 dry wells in an attempt to find usable oil. No luck. Yet the Palestinians were denied their land anyway. In the last several years, what may or may not be extractable oil may or may not have been discovered., which if it proves true is likely to upset the equation. Which makes it all the more imperative for the US to hold Israel's feet to the fire to resolve the situation that Israel has spent sixty years evading.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Which makes it all the more imperative for the US to hold Israel's feet to the fire to resolve the situation that Israel has spent sixty years evading.

The US, not being anti-Semites, are not going to penalize Israel for something they are not doing.

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

Nice try, not historically accurate. For the past sixty years neither Israel nor the Palestinians have had any oil reserves to speak of, which makes it hard to suggest that oil had any relevance as a bone of contention. Israel drilled around 400 dry wells in an attempt to find usable oil. No luck. Yet the Palestinians were denied their land anyway. In the last several years, what may or may not be extractable oil may or may not have been discovered., which if it proves true is likely to upset the equation. Which makes it all the more imperative for the US to hold Israel's feet to the fire to resolve the situation that Israel has spent sixty years evading.

Let me spell it out. The Palestinean problem is the burr that the Arabs have left under the Israeli saddle, after the 1967 war, so to speak. Meaning, if the Arab nations had wanted, they could have taken the refugees in, back in 1967, and eliminated the whole contentious matter. However, they allowed the refugees to fester in their situation. And now, Europe knowing that the Arab nations do not want to try a fifth war against Israel, at least so far, and the Palestinean situation is the proxy way to push the Arab agenda of disenfranchising Israel from the family of nations, play along by bemoaning the plight of the Palestineans, so Arabs will not become alienated from Europe, and keep the oil flowing to Europe. Just Europe being self-serving, in my opinion. If Europe had no remorese for the Holocaust, let's be honest and admit Europe has little concern for Israel. Israel, in my opinion, is just what the Nazis didn't have time to finish in the collective mind of Europe. So, Europe, in my opinion, panders to middle east oil nations, since being cold in the winter is not fun, and it makes no sense when European Jewry is a thing of the past.

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Nice try, but again historically untrue. The refugees and their descendants did not reside in the other countries outside of Israel. They are refugees from what is now Israel. The state of Israel expropriated their land and property after the 1947 and susequent wars, in violation of international law. You say that the Arab nations should have "solved" the problem by granting the refugees citizenship in their countries, In other words, they have to pay for Israeli agression. The Palestinian refugees, who had no hand in the Holocaust, were dispossessed of their land by the Israelis, in what you seem to think was somewhow expiation for the Holocaust. Monstrous crimes by the Nazis do not give the survivors the right to commit crimes on other innocent people. Nor do they give Israelis the right to dispossess someone else as some sort of atonemnt for crimes against them.

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@MontereyJack,

How you lie! There were only just over 600,000 Pals who abandoned their new country at the request of the invading Muslim armies, promising the Pals they could return in two weeks when the Jews would be defeated. Then, the returning Pals could seize the property of the Jews and have their way with the Jewish women.

There were many Pals at the time who never lived in Israel.

Despite hundreds of attacks by the Pals, the Israelis essentially never set foot in the WB and Gaza, until the Arab attacks in the '67 War.

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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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