Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@izzythepush,

So should the israelis just take your approach instead: stop talking and just randomly send rockets at palestinians and blow up busses full of their kids? You seem to accept that approach much better than talks . Should I email Bibi and tell him to stop talking and start bombibg - that's what you want, right? Or is it only ok when your friends do that?

1 Reply

@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

No. You are the one to pretend to care about Palestinians. You wish eternal violence for them. I want them to have a state and peace

Absolute rot. You're confusing realism with defeatism. Only a fool would get doughy eyed at the prospect of these peace talks. Hamas is not involved. Israel announced more illegal settlement building on occupied land shortly after the talks were announced. About a week into the talks the IDF killed three Palestinians and injured 16 others in a raid on a refugee camp.

1 Reply

@0bserver,

Israel set up a Bantustan state unilaterally. They control everything that goes in and out. The Gazans have never experienced freedom.

1 Reply

@0bserver,

Israel doesn't need to blow up buses they've got the IDF. 3 Palestinians murdered and 16 injured. Yeah, Israel really is serious about peace.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

1. The 3 killed attacked the Israeli patrol - that's an act of war. In response you can get killed.
2. I agree that ideally the patrol shouldn't have been there in the first place
3. if peace talks succeed 1.will never happen again, if you and others spoil the talks - that will keep happening forever.

But regardless of the quality of these peace talks. It's funny how people are willing to sacrifice peace just because they have some theory or idea. In your case, you have your experience with SA. Now you're sure that all of the conflicts in the World are just like that. And you are sure that what worked there will work everywhere. And now you want your theory to work so badly, that you will spoil any chances of peace talks. For what? So you can keep protesting? You realize that neither Israel nor Palestinians are going anywhere. What ever can you suggest instead of the two-state solution? I honestly don't understand

3 Replies

@izzythepush,

Not true. Gaza used to have a free border with Egypt. The sea blockade would've been lifted a long time ago if they weren't smuggling in shiploads of advanced Iranian missiles

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

IDF doesn't blow up buses unlike Palestinian terrorists

1 Reply

@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

Not just a question mark - a much bigger question mark than it is now. When left alone, the Arab states are in no way more peaceful - if anything they only get more violent. The theory doesn't work. It's a pretty theory, but not a useful one

Now they are not peaceful...and have no state.

If Israel were gone from that area...they might still not have peace...but the chances of them having a state would be much, much greater.

The theory works...you just do not want to acknowledge it.

1 Reply

@0bserver,

They don't have to, they have advanced weaponry.

During operation cast lead they attacked a UN hospital. There were just civilians there, no combatants. The UN told them as much, their response, white phosphorous. That's got to be a far more painful death than being blown up on a bus.

2 Replies

@0bserver,

No they didn't, they were just observers.

1 Reply

@0bserver,

We are not spoiling the talks. Israel announced settlement building and launched a raid on a refugee camp. Even if you believe the IDF lies about being attacked, live ammunition is a wholly disproportionate response, and if Israel was serious about peace they wouldn't have sent a patrol into a refugee camp in the first place.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

"just observers". This is footage of some of what those observers did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTBWjXJwLCQ

Check the facts before you automatically disregard what IDF says.

Look for how long the jeeps are just trying to get out of there to safety. They got trapped, and felt immediate danger to their lives. If you don't believe Palestinians can pose danger to trapped IDF soldiers, here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Ramallah_lynching

They can rip their flesh to pieces with their bare hands and happily demonstrate it. BTW, these are the people Bibi, who you hate so much, lets go from prisons. People who ripped humans apart with their bare hands!

So no, I don't automatically believe anything IDF says, but I believe much less what the Palestinians say.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

"We are not spoiling the talks."
Somehow I have the feeling that you will be disappointed if they succeed.

"Israel announced settlement building and launched a raid on a refugee camp. "

I agree that both moves are stupid. Even if there were murderers hiding in the refugee camp - Israelis could have waited with that a few months. Unless the Palestinians there were actually planning future terrorist activities - that I don't know.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

You mean a UN school, and not a hospital. And that too turned out to be another cheap Palestinian propaganda trick:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/un-backtracks-on-claim-that-deadly-idf-strike-hit-gaza-school-1.269314

"Nearly a month after the incident, following the publication of accounts discrediting UNRWA’s story, Maxwell Gaylord, the UN humanitarian coordinator in Jerusalem, was forced to admit that Israel’s account was true after all, that the IDF mortar shells fell in the street near the compound, and not on the compound itself. Gaylord said that the UN “would like to clarify that the shelling and all of the fatalities took place outside and not inside the school.”

This was not the first time terrorists fired mortars near a school in Gaza, nor was it the first time terrorists exploited UN facilities. UN officials in Gaza, who never condemn Palestinian terror (the UN never passed a resolution condemning Hamas terrorism), have a long record of looking the other way while Hamas carries out its activities. UN officials in Gaza are there to help Palestinians and their bias often clouds their judgment and therefore independent verification is needed before accepting their claims."

0 Replies

@izzythepush,

So latest Russian Kornet and Grad missiles are not advanced enough for you?

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-12/22/c_13658899.htm

http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/16/272542/israel-continues-airstrikes-on-gaza/

Do you also think like MiT that Palestinians have only "stone age tools" ?

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

OK, lets be scientific about this:

"but the chances of them having a state would be much, much greater."

You're saying this based on what?

On the other hand, my conclusions that the chances will be actually worse are based on empirical data of looking at other Arab countries and Gaza pullout followed by Arab on Arab violence.

For a theory to work it has to be supported by experimental data

0 Replies

@0bserver,

Happy happy Palestinians:

"The Israeli reservists were beaten, stabbed, had their eyes gouged out, and were disemboweled. At this point, a Palestinian (later identified as Aziz Salha), appeared at the police station window, displaying his blood-stained hands to the crowd, which erupted into cheers. The crowd clapped and cheered as one of the soldier's bodies was then thrown out the window and stamped and beaten by the frenzied mob. One of the bodies was set on fire. Soon after, the mob dragged the two mutilated bodies to Al-Manara Square in the city center as the crowd began an impromptu victory celebration. Palestinian policemen did not prevent, and in some cases actually took part in, the lynching."

3 Replies

@0bserver,

I would be very pleased if talks succeed. I'm a realist though. For the reasons previously mentioned I don't think Israel is serious about peace.

Btw, don't lose all reason. What's said on this forum won't influence the outcome of the talks one bit.

0 Replies

@0bserver,

From observer's same source:

wikipedia wrote:

In response, the Israeli military launched a series of retaliatory strikes against Palestinian Authority targets in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Israeli forces sealed off Palestinian cities as troops, tanks, and armored vehicles massed. Israeli helicopters fired rockets at two police stations in Ramallah (the police station where the lynching took place was destroyed); the Beit Lahia headquarters of Tanzim, the armed wing of Yasser Arafat's Fatah faction; and buildings near Arafat's headquarters in Gaza City. Israeli Navy gunboats were seen offshore. Six Palestinian Authority naval boats were destroyed. Later in the day, Israeli helicopters destroyed the Voice of Palestine radio station in Ramallah.

1 Reply

@0bserver,

Quote:

@0bserver,
Happy happy Palestinians:

"The Israeli reservists were beaten, stabbed, had their eyes gouged out, and were disemboweled. At this point, a Palestinian (later identified as Aziz Salha), appeared at the police station window, displaying his blood-stained hands to the crowd, which erupted into cheers. The crowd clapped and cheered as one of the soldier's bodies was then thrown out the window and stamped and beaten by the frenzied mob. One of the bodies was set on fire. Soon after, the mob dragged the two mutilated bodies to Al-Manara Square in the city center as the crowd began an impromptu victory celebration. Palestinian policemen did not prevent, and in some cases actually took part in, the lynching."

They learn it as kids....

http://www.palwatch.org

At some point either Israel and all of its citizens or the palisavages are gonna have to go and get put somewhere where they no longer represent a threat to civilization. Possibilities would include the Liakhov and/or Novo-Sibirsk islands, The Sahara, the Himalayas, Bikini Atoll... The radiation on Bikini Atoll may have died down by now but we could blow off one or two more nukes before moving the palisavages there...

0 Replies

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know