Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

What? It needs to be challenged? Are you also one of them?

I've challenged RL numerous times. I've pointed out that anti-Semitism has no place in the struggle for Palestinian self determination. You casually use anti-Semitism to deflect criticism of Israel and hide from the truth. That is the greatest insult to the millions who died in the Holocaust. You compound that insult by refusing to challenge those who would deny the Holocaust.

Quote:

Thomas, if you follow the polls in Israel for the last 30 or 40 years, you clearly find a vulgar racism that includes a third of the population who openly declare themselves to be racist. This racism is of the nature of “I hate Arabs” and “I wish Arabs would be dead”.

If you also follow the judicial system in Israel you will see there is discrimination against Palestinians, and if you further consider the 1967 Occupied Territories you will find there are already two judicial systems in operation that represent two different approaches to human life: one for Palestinian life and the other for Jewish life. Additionally there are two different approaches to property and to land. Palestinian property is not recognized as private property because it can be confiscated.

As to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, there is an additional factor. The so-called “Palestinian autonomous areas” are Bantustans. These are restricted entities within the power structure of the Israeli Apartheid system.

The Palestinian state cannot be the by-product of the Jewish state, just in order to keep the Jewish purity of Israel. Israel’s racial discrimination is daily life of most Palestinians. Since Israel is a Jewish state, Israeli Jews are able to accrue special rights which non-Jews cannot do. Palestinian Arabs have no place in a “Jewish” state.

Apartheid is a crime against humanity. Israel has deprived millions of Palestinians of their liberty and property. It has perpetuated a system of gross racial discrimination and inequality. It has systematically incarcerated and tortured thousands of Palestinians, contrary to the rules of international law. It has, in particular, waged a war against a civilian population, in particular children.

Nelson Mandela.

http://www.keghart.com/Mandela-Palestine

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@izzythepush,

You make no sense. There are different forms and levels of antisemitism. Sorry, I'm not going to wait to see another Holocaust before I point out antisemitism. You don't have to lynch people to be racist. Same here, you pick the only Jewish state in the world to attack, based on what? Are Human rights in Iran better? China? All the dozens of Arab countries? You pick the Jewish one - only because it is Jewish. So yes, you are not the worst of all antisemites and you're not denying the Holocaust - thank you on that.

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@0bserver,

The only Jewish state in the world is treated with kid gloves by my government. If the same sanctions that are applied to Iran were applied to Israel I wouldn't have a problem, or a need to boycott them.

It's the fact that Israel is treated differently from other repressive regimes that necessitates the need for a boycott.

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@0bserver,

If you support Palestinian self determination you will be labeled an anti-Semite. The Palestinian people are Semitic as well, and your refusal to address the brutality of the occupation means despite your supposed neutrality you're the anti-Semite.

In your book anyone who dares to criticise Israel is an anti-Semite, or a self loathing Jew. It's a lazy way of refusing to deal with the horrors of the occupation and insults the memory of those killed in the Holocaust

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@izzythepush,

"repressive regimes"

Right, just like we said before - UK in Aghanistan is just as repressive - whether you like it or not

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@izzythepush,

"If you support Palestinian self determination you will be labeled an anti-Semite. "

No. I support Palestinian self determination. But I don't look for every excuse to attack Israel and ignore wrong doings by others.

"In your book anyone who dares to criticise Israel is an anti-Semite, or a self loathing Jew. "

Not at all. Criticising Israel is fine - Criticising ONLY Israel is antisemitism.

"It's a lazy way of refusing to deal with the horrors of the occupation"

unrelated - I agree that occupation has to be dealt with.

" and insults the memory of those killed in the Holocaust"

unrelated. If someone fires a black person for skin color - that's racist . And saying that has nothing to do with the memory of those who were lynched

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@0bserver,

Quote:

How religiously free is Saudi Arabia?

Religious freedom is a relatively minor problem in Saudi Arabia. The big problem is everybody marrying their own cousins, sisters, aunts, uncles, brothers etc. etc. and people walking around with hooves and horns and tails. That might have something to do with per-capita income in SA being around 4k/yr while in Israel with no reources of any sort other than brains and talent, it's more like 20 or 25...

That's before you even get to the question of slavery in Saudi Arabia:

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=saudi+arabia+slavery&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

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Quote:

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

The real question is:

Can you look at THIS map and say that Israel has appropriated ENOUGH land?

http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/isr-world.gif

There is nobody living in that green area who would not be better off under Israeli laws, customs, economics, and government.

http://muslimvillage.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/allahabad_muslim_women_voting_070503.jpg

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@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

No. I support Palestinian self determination.

No you don't. You make a pretence of doing so. You're not fooling anyone.

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@izzythepush,

He's parroting what the Israeli government has been doing for decades. Just talk, but their actions says otherwise.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

He's parroting what the Israeli government has been doing for decades.

Jesus, CI, even after the incredible hypocrisy that surfaces in almost every posting from the vast majority of USians, you still can't see it. Y'all just keep pumping it out.

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@cicerone imposter,

Parroting is exactly the right word. Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to Mark Regev. Their narrative is fairly clear, 'Israel wants a two state solution, but those pesky Palestinians keep scuppering things. Any criticism of the IDF is false. Palestine is never provoked. Israel arrests right wing settlers. All settlement building is on land that Israel would automatically get in any peace deal.' All accompanied by lots of hand-wringing and an attempt to appear reasonable.

Observer has observed this narrative to the letter.

The truth of the occupation is far different. Laws are rarely enforced, the IDF acts with complete disregard for the lives of Palestinians. The settlers get away with murder. Look at Observer's example of a settler being arrested. The Catholic monastery is about as high profile as you can get, and no mention of the settler even being charged let alone prosecuted and convicted. Graffiti gets daubed over the homes of ordinary Palestinians all the time. Israel deliberately provokes Palestine all the time. There would be no peace process in NI if shortly after talks were announced the UDR swept down on the Short Strand, killing three and injuring fifteen in the process.

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@izzythepush,

No. You are the one to pretend to care about Palestinians. You wish eternal violence for them. I want them to have a state and peace

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@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

No. You are the one to pretend to care about Palestinians. You wish eternal violence for them. I want them to have a state and peace

More likely they would have both if the state of Israel left that area!

Not sure...but more likely.

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@Frank Apisa,

Yeah? You want a mini example of that? Israel left the area of Gaza completely. What came next is Hamas throwing Fatah off of building roofs. Syiryans and Iraqis are killing each other. Egypt is demolishing Palestinian homes. Israel has nothing to do with of that. So your theory does not match experiment - need a new theory, sorry.

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@0bserver,

I would point out that Gaza is blockaded by Israel but you would just deny it so why bother?

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@RABEL222,

No, I'm aware of that. Are you aware of Karine A?

Wait, how is this related to Hamas killing Fatah?

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@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

Yeah? You want a mini example of that? Israel left the area of Gaza completely. What came next is Hamas throwing Fatah off of building roofs. Syiryans and Iraqis are killing each other. Egypt is demolishing Palestinian homes. Israel has nothing to do with of that. So your theory does not match experiment - need a new theory, sorry.

So the "peace" would be a question mark. "Peace" is a question mark everywhere, Observer. But you said you wanted them to have "Peace" and "a state"...and there is a better chance of them having a state if Israel were not there.

Theory works.

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@RABEL222,

Does anybody know which "democracy" has occupied territories besides Israel?

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@Frank Apisa,

Not just a question mark - a much bigger question mark than it is now. When left alone, the Arab states are in no way more peaceful - if anything they only get more violent. The theory doesn't work. It's a pretty theory, but not a useful one

1 Reply

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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