63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 11:58 am
@izzythepush,
Which reminds me that we sat on the next table to Kaufmann in a pizzeria in Stockport ...
izzythepush
 
  0  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 12:13 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
He's a very active local MP. He looks after his constituents.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 12:24 pm
@izzythepush,
He even looked at us Wink
0 Replies
 
Arjunakki
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 12:26 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

Arjunakki wrote:
C-Span's Washington Journal is a call-in show which last approximately 3 hours daily with repeats. On this program, the public is allowed to express their feelings regarding the subject at hand. The middle East and Israel is discussed frequently. The vitriol spouted against Israel is intense. This is where people get off their shoulders what they hate most about congress and its continued financial support for a tiny apartheid nation. The world collectively fought apartheid successfully in South Africa and here our government is in bed with Israel and it's apartheid status.



Quote:
izzythepush wrote: I wouldn't read too much into that.
What proportion of the population watch? I bet it's not a lot, so many people, (not just Americans it's as true over here,) find politics boring, and turn off. Of course those who've taken an interest would be disgusted with Israel's Apartheid form of government. Only the willfully ignorant like Advocate support Israel.


C-Span's Washington Journal forum attracts a cross section of the US. People may listen in the car, at their desk computer or at home. The pivotal point I'd tried to stress is the anger among some Americans, a symptom across the US against Israel which is felt through this medium. Of course "Washington Journal" is not completely representative of all America, but this call-up program in which all segments of society can be heard, is a wakeup call that not all Americans are blindly loyal to the Zionist nation. Even among my work colleagues and neighbors, the connecting tie on which we all agree politically is that Israel's stealing Palestinian land is dead wrong.
RABEL222
 
  0  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 12:26 pm
@Foofie,
I havent forgotten that they took the lessons learned from Hitlers Germany and have applied them to the Palestine.
Arjunakki
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 12:45 pm
@izzythepush,
Wow, Izzy. What a much needed video. MP Kaufman is terrific but he's not alone, you know. There are many Jews who speak out against Israel, take Noam Chomsky, who has been blacklisted in Israel and cannot enter the Zionist nation.

Thank you for posting this video as I thoroughly enjoyed listening to it.
JTT
 
  2  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 12:47 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
Don't forget those Jews that lost family in the Holocaust. Wilfully realistic!


Don't forget the Koreans, the Vietnamese, the Afghans, the Iraqis, the Nicaraguans, the Chileans, the Cambodians, the Laotians, the Mexicans, the Ecuadorians, the Colombians, the Cubans, the Filipinos, the ... who lost family and much much more in the frequent US holocausts against their countries.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 01:00 pm
@RABEL222,
Quote:
I havent forgotten that they took the lessons learned from Hitlers Germany and have applied them to the Palestine.


Did Hitler's Germany learn their lessons from the US, Rabel, say in the Philippine Holocaust, or perhaps the Hawaiian Holocaust?

Quote:

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/turningthetide-6-2.html

"Turning the Tide:
Journal of Anti-Racist Activism, Research & Education"
Volume 6, #5-6, December 1993
available from
People Against Racist Terror (PART)
P.O. Box 1990
Burbank CA 91507
310-288-5003
quarterly, $15.00 a year
KANAKA MAOLI (HAWAIIAN PEOPLE) SUBJECTED TO GENOCIDE AT THE HANDS OF U. S. AND STATE

by
Ka Ho'okolokolonui Kanaka Maoli Judges

Having heard extensive and compelling testimony on the islands ofO'ahu, Matai, Moloka'i, Kaua'i and Hawai'i from August 13-19,1993, receiving voluminous documentary evidence in support andcorroboration of the testimony, and having engaged in a number ofsite inspections during the same period, the Ka Ho'okolokolonuiKanaka Maoli (People's International Tribunal, Hawai'i 1993) hasarrived at certain general recognitions and findings from whichit is prepared to advance preliminary recommendations. It shouldbe noted that a full report detailing and amplifying theseresults will be issued by the Tribunal within a period of sixmonths.

The Tribunal finds that:

Between the years 179O and 1826, the United States violated nakanawai (Kanaka Maoli law) through a series of actions impugningthe sovereignty of the Lahui Kanaka Maoli (Hawaiian people andnation). These actions also violated elements of customaryinternational law, as well as the fundamental commitment of theUnited States, expressed in its own Declaration of Independence,to respect the inalienable rights of all people to life, libertyand the pursuit of happiness.
During the period of 1826 and 1893, the United Statesaccelerated its interventions in the internal affairs of LahuiKanaka Maoli, abridging and impairing its sovereign functioningand right to self-determination. In addition to violations of naKanawai and customary law, these actions violated the terms of atleast three ratified and binding treaties...
In 1893, the U.S. openly supported, both diplomatically andthrough deployment of military force, a coup d'etat conducted byalien immigrants against the legitimate govermnent of LahuiKanaka Maoli. Thereafter, for a period of five years, the U.S.openly supported the usurping regime by use of armed forceagainst the indigenous population of Hawaii. In 1898, the U S.annexed Ka Pae'aina o Hawai'i (the Hawaiian archipelago), neitherobtaining the consent of, nor even consulting the Kanaka Maoli. Self-evidently, these actions violated na kanawai in the mostmassive and fundamental ways....
Following annexation, the United States forcibly subordinated,degraded and systematically dispossessed the Kanaka Maoli. In1959, utilizing the mechanism of an invalid plebiscite whichdenied indigenous Hawaiians the right to express their will withregard to their political status or the disposition of theirterritory, the U. S incorporated Hawai'i into the Union as astate. ... this action contravened Article 73 of the UnitedNations Charter ... Under provision of Article 20 of the Charterof the Organization of American States. ...
Lahui Kanaka Maoli Sovereignty has not been extingushed by theillegal actions of the United States. The overthrow of 1893 andpurported annexation ... merely changed the nature of theoperative state, but did not remove the inherent right of thepeople to sovereignty.
The effective ability of indigenous Hawaiians to assert theirlegitimate right to self-determination has been denied. TheKanaka Maoli are morally and legally entitled to reassert thisright under provision of U.N. General Assembly Resolution 1514.
The federal government and government of the state of Hawai'i,have imposed and maintained a "blood quantum" system ofidentification upon the Kanaka Maoli which is alien to theircultural traditions, whlch is socially and politically divisive,and which has worked to their economic disadvantage. Bloodquantum is ethnocidal, and is contrary to the virtual entirety ofthe International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms ofRacial Discrimination.
The Kanaka Maoli have been subjected to ongoing processes ofgenocide, both physical and cultural, at the hands of the U.S.government and the government of the State of Hawaii, acting inconcert with a range of commercial interests, since at least asearly as 1850. The conduct of the ... governments violates naKanawai, as well as the 1948 Convention for Prevention andPunishment of the Crime of Genocide ...
The Kanaka Maoli have exhausted all existing peaceful avenuesfor rectifying the multiplicity of wrongs done to them.Consequently, they are entitled, on an urgent basis, to explorepotentially more productive approaches, such as mediatednegotiations with the U.S. Department of State.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 01:36 pm
@Arjunakki,
I had posted it before, but I was forgetting you're new.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 01:40 pm
@Arjunakki,
Sounds a bit like The Today programme on Radio 4 over here. Politicians tend to talk to Radio 4 instead of breakfast TV which can be a little lightweight.

It's got listeners of around 7 million, but more people listen to the music on Radio 1.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 01:45 pm
@Arjunakki,
I think this is the most powerful bit of the speech.

Quote:
My parents came to Britain as refugees from Poland. Most of their families were subsequently murdered by the Nazis in the holocaust. My grandmother was ill in bed when the Nazis came to her home town of Staszow. A German soldier shot her dead in her bed.

My grandmother did not die to provide cover for Israeli soldiers murdering Palestinian grandmothers in Gaza. The current Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians. The implication is that Jewish lives are precious, but the lives of Palestinians do not count.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 02:06 pm
@izzythepush,
I would have emphasized this statement much more.
Quote:
The current Israeli Government ruthlessly and cynically exploit the continuing guilt among gentiles over the slaughter of Jews in the holocaust as justification for their murder of Palestinians. The implication is that Jewish lives are precious, but the lives of Palestinians do not count.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 02:08 pm
@Arjunakki,
The Zionists (and their advocates) on these threads call all of us "anti-Semites." I accept that tag from these inhuman Zionists with pride.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 02:57 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

I havent forgotten that they took the lessons learned from Hitlers Germany and have applied them to the Palestine.


It is okay to post stupid things, but your post abuses the privilege.

In all the fighting between the Jews and the Pals, all of 10,000 Pals have been killed. Asaad, in Syria, has already killed 100,000 of his own people.
Advocate
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 03:00 pm
@Arjunakki,
I guess you have not noticed that call-in shows attract many irrational and anti-Semitic people. You really should not form your views from these callers.
JTT
 
  0  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 03:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I would have emphasized this statement much more.

The implication is that Jewish lives are precious, but the lives of Palestinians do not count.


I wonder if that was learned from watching how the US treats those from other countries.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 03:30 pm
Can you look at a map, any map, and say the US does not systematically steal land and other peoples' wealth?


Quote:

http://www.hawaii-nation.org/rebuilding-kingdom.html

Rebuilding a Hawaiian Kingdom

Los Angeles Times
July 21, 2005


'Bumpy' Kanahele has carved out an Oahu village where native values reign. Many see it as a steppingstone to the goal of sovereignty.

By Tomas Alex TizonTimes Staff Writer

WAIMANALO, Hawaii — From Honolulu, it takes an hour to drive here, heading north over dagger-like mountains and then east through rolling farm country to the outermost corner of the island known by some as the Hawaiians' Hawaii.

Tour buses circling the island don't stop here except to gas up.

Those who step off the bus won't find hula dancers greeting them with leis, or five-star hotels, or even two-star ones. They'll find a sleepy, rough-edged, working-class town of 10,000 people, some of whom don't like tourists and don't mind saying so.

"Haole, go home!" and variations of whites-aren't-welcome are occasionally shouted from front porches as a reminder that this isn't Waikiki. It's a different world. Locals rule here.

Half the residents are native Hawaiians, and many more are part Hawaiian. This is a place where Hawaiian is taught as a first language in some schools and spoken among neighbors, a place where it is widely held that Hawaii was stolen by the United States and that someday these lands will return to the Kanaka Maoli, the ancient Polynesians who settled the islands.

Scattered throughout Waimanalo's neighborhoods are state flags hanging upside-down, a symbol of defiance. In this corner of Oahu, Hawaiian sovereignty — a government of Hawaiians for Hawaiians — isn't just a tropical dream. The people have seen a version of it materialize before their eyes.

In the foothills above town, there is a village unlike any other in Hawaii. It's called Pu'uhonua o Waimanalo ("Refuge of Waimanalo"), a community of 80 native Hawaiians living communally on 45 acres. If Waimanalo is a stronghold of Hawaiian sovereignty, the village is its spiritual center.

Some people refer to it as "Bumpy's town," named after the 300-pound, tattooed, activist ex-con who negotiated the village into existence — wrangling with the state's most powerful politicians — more than a decade ago.
Advocate
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 07:09 pm
@JTT,
I don't understand. We stole the islands fair and square.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 07:21 pm
@Advocate,
Why is it necessary to point to other country's leaders and their atrocities to divert the topic of this thread?

FYI, this thread is about Jews systematically appropriating Palestinian lands illegally.

It really isn't about the holocaust, although many of you like to bring that up as some kind of justification for what Jews are doing to the Palestinians in Israel.
0 Replies
 
Arjunakki
 
  2  
Mon 26 Aug, 2013 08:15 pm
@Advocate,
vtc
Quote:

I guess you have not noticed that call-in shows attract many irrational and anti-Semitic people.You really should not form your views from these callers.


Now, Advocate, you are simply uncanny to be able to ascertain how I form my views.....Really, you'r amazing!!!!

You know absolutely nothing about me except I am your natural born challenger regarding the Zionist nation, Israel. Don't presume because I quote a particular source that it's my only connection to the world of varying opinions. No doubt you are correct in that many types call into the Washington Journal....that's the purpose of the program; some of those calls I agreed with 100 percent, particularly when referring to the hostile aggression of Israel! I also get some of my news from Haaretz, a paper noted for its ethical integrity inside Israel; I read the Jerusalem Post, the Guardian Unlimited, the New York Times (the latter I subscribe to both digitally and home delivery). The Washington Post; I also read al Jazeera, along with the Huffington Post, etc. I am not a one-note media reader....

P.S. Advocate, you must stop referring to posters holding constructive criticism of Israel as anti-Semites. If you continue along this path, the noun "anti-Semite" will lose its effectiveness, its punch, and any impact it might have had will be lost.
 

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