Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@PoliteMight,

High time some reality crept into the conversation.

0 Replies

@Theo202,

I think you've got skewed ideas about terrorists, and who exactly wants land they have no right to.

https://americandigest.org/landingreenmuslims.jpg

I want you to look at this map and say that Israel systematically appropriates land. Because I'm having trouble seeing it.

1 Reply

@bulmabriefs144,

bulmabriefs144 wrote:

I want you to look at this map and say that Israel systematically appropriates land. Because I'm having trouble seeing it.

You're looking at the wrong map.

Here's the map from the first post of this thread.

https://i.ibb.co/WsdWKLH/Disappearing-Palestine-L.png

2 Replies

@InfraBlue,

Bulmabriefs is a flat earther, he has trouble seeing everything.

0 Replies

Quote:

Biden: I support two states based on pre-1967 lines

US President Joe Biden pledged his support for a two-state resolution based on the pre-1967 lines with mutual swaps when he held a joint press conference with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Friday in Bethlehem.

He did not cede to Abbas' request to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state, but he spoke of a "future Palestinian state" and one with continuous territory.

"Two states along the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, remains the best way to achieve equal measures of security prosperity freedom and democracy for the Palestinians as well as Israelis.

“The Palestinian people deserve a state of their own that is independent, sovereign, viable and continuous,” Biden said.

When will Israel and the PA hold talks?
Despite this, he said, the ground is "not ripe" at "this moment to restart negotiations."

It is possible, however, he said, to use Israel's new ties with its neighbors to improve relations with the Palestinians.

“At this moment, when Israel is improving relations with nations throughout the region we can harness that same momentum to reinvigorate the peace process between the Palestinian people and the Israelis,” Biden said.

When it came to Jerusalem, Biden said, “it was central to the national visions of both Israelis and Palestinians.”

The issues
“Jerusalem must be a city for all its people. Its holy sites preserving its status quo, with the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan continuing to serve as custodian,” Biden explained.

Biden acknowledged the loss of Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Akleh, who was killed in May while covering an IDF raid in Jenin. The US has said that is likely she was accidentally shot by an IDF soldier.

"She was an American citizen and a proud Palestinian," whose work was vital to democracy, Biden said.

"The US will continue to insist on a full and transparent accounting of her death," he said.

To help improve Palestinian day-to-day life, Biden said, he was pledging an additional $200 million to the United Relief and Works Agency.

Biden also referenced the pledge he made earlier in the day when he visited Augusta Victoria hospital in east Jerusalem for $100 million for Palestinian health care services in east Jerusalem.

The United States has engaged with Israel on steps to improve life for Palestinians including the provision of a 4G internet system for Palestinians, renewable energy and freedom of movement for goods and people.

"We cannot wait for a peace agreement to solve everything. The best way to keep the hope is to stick to the goal that things will get better," said Biden.

"The Palestinian Authority has its own work to do," he said, listing them as insisting on and prioritizing democracy, transparency and implementing
more transparency.

"This is critical to building a democratic Palestinian society."

Abbas urged the United States to unilaterally recognize the state of Palestinian with east Jerusalem as its capital “on the 1967 borders" and called on it to end the “Israeli occupation.”

https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/article-712215

Someone more knowledgeable may be able to point out the ways Biden's ideas on Israel and Palestine are not workable, but to me, they seem common sense and welcome. I am not sure what is the pre-1967 borders though and how it differentiates with 1967 borders.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

The 1967 borders were formed after a conflict known as the six day war.

The pre 1967 borders go back to the original recognition of Israel by the UN in 1949.

Biden was met with demonstrators in Palestine.

He promised to reopen a mission in E Jerusalem closed by Trump.

He has not done that, nor has he done anything about illegal Israeli settlements on occupied Palestinian land.

The most recent bone of contention is the murder of Palestinian journalist Shireen Abu Aqleh. The UN has said she was killed by an Israeli bullet.

The US said it would investigate and despite promising not to, it handed everything over to Israel.

Those are not the actions of an honest broker.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Some of this is beyond me, but I do know a US President (usually) doesn't do things unilaterally. With congress so closely divided, it's hard to get anything done in our country, much less anywhere else. However, he may have been able to keep the investigation out of Israel's hands and opened the E Jerusalem closed by Trump on his own. If it was closed by Trump, surely it can be opened by Biden.

Considering how all of our politicians tend to favor Israel over and above Palestinians, I guess I was merely encouraged to see anything good in that direction coming from Biden. But I guess it is all just words and no concrete action. Kind of par for the course I think the saying is.

2 Replies

@revelette1,

If you google Shireen Abu Akleh you can see why the Palestinians are so upset.

Straight away the IDF blamed it on Palestinians, which seems bizarre as she was a constant thorn in Israel's side.

The UN confirmed the IDF were responsible.

0 Replies

@revelette1,

It's quite difficult criticising Israel at the moment because of the amount of anti Semitic conspiracy theories that have been given a new lease of life by the Covid lockdowns.

Legitimate criticism is drowned out by vile hate speech distilled from forged pamplets like The Protocols of Zion and other far right sources.

The Protocols of Zion is a forged document produced by the Russian Czar's secret police to justify various pogroms.

In essence it depicts a Jewish conspiracy to take over the World.

The Nazis used it to justify the Holocaust, and anti Semites still quote it despite it being debunked as a forgery a long time ago.

Those of us concerned about the treatment of Palestinians do not want to have anything to do with such repulsive bigots.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

I can see the logic in what you say. It would be like if a minority committed a horrible crime against a white person just because that person was white, to condemn it would be open the floodgates to all kinds of racist sentiments. As just an example, not wanting to get caught up in American politics which is the absolute pits rights now.

1 Reply

@revelette1,

The ironic thing was that the rabid, unthinking, kneejerk supporters of Israel like Oralloy and Foofie were always accusing me of being antisemitic, but I never let them stop me talking about ending the occupation.

The real antisemites have shut me up.

0 Replies

@InfraBlue,

No, I'm looking at the right map.

Israel has a right to have their own country, be left alone by Muslims and other people (though even ancient Israel had guests and tourists), and be able to build a temple on their own land. I think Israel should have the Sinai peninsula too, since they used to revere Mount Sinai as the mountain of God.

I look at that map you posted and say big ******* deal.
The actual size of Israel is more like...

Israel is a ******* tiny county.

Meanwhile...

I look at this map, and it is a big ******* deal, because they aren't done taking land. Sweden in particular is having real issues with Muslims taking their culture and raping their women. Likewise, they pulled the same crap in Buddhist countries as in Sweden. But the Buddhists, despite centuries of relative pacifism, wouldn't put up with this crap. They fought back. The Muslims played the victimhood card, as they are doing here.

ZERO SYMPATHY.

Quote:

The Lord sent Nathan to David. When he came to him, he said, “There were two men in a certain town, one rich and the other poor. 2 The rich man had a very large number of sheep and cattle, 3 but the poor man had nothing except one little ewe lamb he had bought. He raised it, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food, drank from his cup and even slept in his arms. It was like a daughter to him.

4 “Now a traveler came to the rich man, but the rich man refrained from taking one of his own sheep or cattle to prepare a meal for the traveler who had come to him. Instead, he took the ewe lamb that belonged to the poor man and prepared it for the one who had come to him.”

5 David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this must die! 6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity.”

7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man!"

Israel has one country that is a Jewish nation. All others, they are guests. The Muslims have 50 Muslim majority countries, and there are six Islamic states.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-Muslim-nations-are-there-in-the-world?share=1

But yes, it's "unfair" that Israel has a tiny stretch of land.

And I suppose it has something to do with flat earth that I can see a simple map as it actually is, and not blow it up into something that it isn't.

1 Reply

@bulmabriefs144,

No. You are looking at the wrong map. In regard to Israel systematically appropriating land in regard to any state for the Palestinians, which is what this thread is about, not about Muslims and Jews. With that said, the idea of a two state solution infringes on the Palestinians' Right of Return which would be much better address by a state established in Palestine that is democratic, for all peoples therein, egalitarian and pluralistic. As it stands, the present regime that controls Palestine is an ethnocentric apartheid regime that, to exist, must necessarily oppress the Palestinan people. Such a regime must not exist.

3 Replies

@InfraBlue,

The Hebrew and Christian scriptures do not reveal exactly what Canaan had done to his grandfather Noah, as he lay naked in a drunken stupor in his tent, so we can only speculate as to what occurred. My own personal opinion is that Canaan, the ancestor of today’s Palestinians, sodomised his grandfather, but like I said, that is only my personal opinion.

Nevertheless Canaan did do something to his grandfather for which he was cursed.

Shem, is the younger brother of Ham the firstborn son of Noah, and Ham is the father of Canaan whom Noah cursed when he awoke from his drunken stupor and realised what his youngest ben=male descendant [Canaan] had done to him. After cursing Canaan, Shem was given the blessing of first born by Noah, which was removed from his elder brother, “Ham,” because of what his son Canaan had done to him. See Genesis 9: 24 to 27.

Jubilees 7: 13; And Ham knew that his father had cursed his younger son, and he was displeased that he had cursed his son. and he parted from his father, he and his sons with him, Cush and Mizraim and Put and Canaan. And he built for himself a city and called its name after the name of his wife Ne’elatama’uk.

The Book of Jubilees Chapter 8: When Noah divided the Land among his three sons, Shem received the middle portion, from the delta of the river of Egypt, north to Lebanon and east to India, while Ham received the land of Africa to the south, and Japheth received the land to the north of Lebanon, which according to the book of Jubilees 8: 30; It is said that the Land of Japheth included the five great islands and a great land in the north. But it is cold, and the land of Ham is Hot, and the land of Shem (The middle son) is neither hot nor cold, but it is of blended cold and heat.

The sons of Noah then divided their portion of land among their sons, and it is written in Jubilees 9: 14; “And thus the sons of Noah divided unto their sons in the presence of Noah their father, and he bound them all by an oath, imprecating a curse on everyone who sought to seize the portion that had not fallen to him by lot. And they all said, ‘So be it; so be it,’ for themselves and for their sons forever throughout their generations til the day of judgement, etc.”

Then in chapter 10: 29; we read; “And Canaan saw the land of Lebanon to the river Egypt, that it was very good, and he went not into the land of his inheritance to the west (That is to) the sea, and he dwelt in the land of Lebanon, eastward and westward from the border of the Jordan and from the border of the sea. And Ham his father, and Cush and Mizraim, his brothers said unto him: ‘Thou hast settled in a land which is not thine, and which did not fall to us by lot: do not do so; for if thou dost do so, thou and thy sons will fall in the land and be accursed through sedition; for by sedition ye have settled; and by sedition will thy children fall, and thou shalt be rooted out forever, etc.

According to those scriptures the descendants of Abraham the descendant of Shem, are merely reclaiming the land that is their rightful inheritance.

0 Replies

@InfraBlue,

I tell you again, you are looking at the wrong map.

A tiny country has the right to exist. Monaco, Lithuania, Lesotho, Israel. All of these are legitimate, and should be left alone. They are not hurting anyone who is not actively threatening them.

A massive empire has to justify itself. Which is why the US has to explain why it was sorta late to abolish slavery in Texas. Or why it disrupted elections during the cold war. Big empires are accountable because what they do, because they affect vast swatches of land and people. If the Islamic States decide to kill all people with freckles, millions potentially die. If Israel were to do the same, outside of Israel nobody would be affected (and not many people have freckles in Israel, to my knowledge).

Civilized countries should not bully small states. That's bad form.

Here's another nugget. There is no Palestine. There was the Philistines. It was located on the West Bank. The Philistines were an ancient enemy of the Jews.
"Palestine" was a myth made up by the Romans to obscure the map of Israel (Israelites are notoriously bad about getting lost, as noted from wandering forty years after displeasing God), there were no Palestines, they were a tribe made up by Muslims to take over the nation of Israel. The Jews have right to Israel. The Christians have right to Israel. The Samaritans have right to Israel. The "Palestines" are a group of Arabs that want yet another state, and are resorting to fraud to get it.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1e/72/77/1e727773d5120a7730a5fb575e6ee366.jpg

Notice how this map completely ignores that there are two states? They simply claim Israel does not exist, and it all belongs to Palestinians. So what's the difference. Muslims want it all, Jews want it all. The difference is that Muslims already have their own countries. So enough of them. Jews have not one state to call their own.

Here's Israel at the time when Israel and Judah were split, and there's Palestine. On the left is "Palestine" as decided by "Palestinians." Nice try, tho.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816868397836926996/997680505493405706/Israel.png

Do you hate Jews?

I'm sure at this point, you will come up with an excuse to avoid answering. So, I'll ask that question again. Because frankly, anyone who hates Jews enough to deny them a nation is a Nazi.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

You're arguing with someone who not only doesn't know, they d9n't want to know.

I had a similar exchange with Gungasnake who reduced everything to Muslim v Jew.

He refused to accept some Palestinians were Christian, and involved in the struggle for self determination.

The reality is far too complicated for the simple mind of a flat earther to comprehend.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

No, he's arguing with someone who actually understands that Jewish history is a bit longer than the last few hundred years. And that the land historically belonged to them.

And that the Holocaust was directly caused by Jews not having a land safe to them.

Also, are you kidding? Christians don't call themselves Palestinians. They call themselves Christians. Christian identity always trumps national identity.
I am a Christian, and I'm also an American. Like that. With Muslims, they always try to hide the fact, until suddenly there are a bunch of Muslims in the country, and nobody knows where they came from. They came from minority groups declaring independence.
1. Set yourself up as a minority.
2. Demand the country that you live in is yours.
3. They deny you. Demand independence, and get support from (Muslim-allied) UN
4. Become like Pakistan. Breed in large numbers outside the country, and take over the original country by froce.
5. Make the countries united, but displace the original name of the land (all of India becomes Pakistan).

This is the playbook of Muslims everywhere. And it usually gets them what they want, more countries overthrown.

But I decided to prove it.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/religious-beliefs-in-palestine.html
Nope only 6% of Palestinians are Christian. I wonder is they mean people living in "Palestine" (Israel) or who identify as Palestinian rather than Israeli.

They mean ppl living in the parts that aren't Israel. It goes on to say that the other 90% or so are Sunni Muslims, and that there is no religious freedom, unlike Israel.

Quote:

There is no constitution for the state of Palestine, and the basic laws assume that Islam is the religion of the state and therefore secures the freedom of religion. The principles of sharia law are integrated into the legislature.

0 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

Lets understand this. With Ottoman Empire everything was balanced but now it was not. The reality is that being Christians ( mostly Catholics ) nobody wanted to trade with Isalmics, despite being integrated into European daily life. Same with Jews nobody wanted them but they were their and was working the system.

The idea of Israel was fictionally created by Zionists who wanted to have a "State of the Jews" or meaning an origin of Judaism.

That being said even before this idea Jews under the Ottoman Empire live in acceptable means alongside Christians, and what nots in Palestine.

The Zionists worked with the government at the time and presented Artists, craftmen, and mostly wealthy and rich individuals.

Afterwards tons of Jews was fleeing Europe not because of the idea of a physical state of Israel but because of Hitler. These were mostly white people who are residents of European nations, who are Jews.

Palestine saw the influx of people and as with United States at one point closed off borders and even sent people back.

After WWII their were tons of refugees and no where to place them. Many of them was literally shipped to Palestine and literally was given guns. These were hardcore Nazi minded people to various victims of WWII who was deemed Jewish ( even those who were Gypsies ) and was told to fight for the land.

Being brainwashed for so long they would accept anything. Murderers, killers, people would do anything for normality.

Backed by UN troops of the Zionists ( people who want a physical state of Israel with obvious high income sources legal or not ), they split up the land into chunks as with the great Indian-Civil-war and had people relocated.

This is what caused the problems we have today regarding Israel.

................

So what else in the area.

Britain, France, Spain, and other European nations was planting the flag in North Africa, West Asia, to even damaging India. English for instance was seen as enemy public number one and during the 1960's many reforms was made to their colonies via post fall of Ottoman Empire.

Iraq for instance before being liberated the British seperated Kuwait ( where most of oil was located at ) and many western powers pour trillions into the nation trying to make it look like a good thing which it was not. That is why "Desert Storm" happen. US role was just to guard the UAE and not intervene but the general at the time choose to do so when Iraq attacked Israel ( which he had no right to do so ).

Again if Iraq had just taken over Kuwait all would be acceptable and alright. Most of the problems we have today would be gone and Iraq would and could be just like Dubai as with the UAE.
..........

Same with Iran. Iran had an elected official. The so called "Royal" of Iran could have just kept on running for office and actually appeal to the people but instead him being an idiot worked with the British who wanted to drop oil prices of Iran via force. Not only the elected official was assassinated but eventually the so called Royal where the rest of the family was exiled. That is why Iran is screwed the $#$@ up the way it is now unlike 1960's Iran. ALL BECAUSE OF THE BRITISH!!!!!.

...............

That being said the entire "Oil Crisis of 1982" ( which we are still living in the shadow of ) never needed to happen and only happen because US choose to side with British and make it look like it was the fault of Iran. That being said creating propaganda against Islam via pro Zionists manipulation of the media.

..........

Take that comic book "Area 88" which tells a story about a warring nation between a prince and his father king. That uses the Israeli battle flag of the fire horse. All of that was and is a farce lie. The reality is that Zionists are the reason for all the "Bloodshed" of the land causing most of the problems. If anybody else is to blame it is the manipulated west via Zionist influence and especially the British attempting to play peace maker when it itself is at fault.
In fact all of the old-world via Europe is at fault.

.....................

Another factor in all of this is the Han-Chinese debt and other nations from around the globe.

0 Replies

@bulmabriefs144,

You are wrong. A country whose existence is predicated on the permanent and perpetual oppression of a people does not have the right to exist.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

See what I mean.

He's a pig ignorant bigot.

Don't waste your breath.

1 Reply

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know