Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

Read my fisrt post. I explained exactly why this map is a complete lie.

The youngest of six children, Kaufman was born in Leeds to Louis and Jane Kaufman. His parents were both Jewish and came from Poland before the First World War. He was educated at Leeds Grammar School, and graduated with a degree in philosophy, politics and economics from the University of Oxford (Queen's College). During his time there, he was Secretary of the University Labour Club. He was assistant general secretary of the Fabian Society from (1954–55), a lead writer on the Daily Mirror (1955–64) and a journalist on the New Statesman (1964–65). He was Parliamentary Press Liaison Officer for the Labour Party (1965–70) and eventually became a member of Prime Minister Harold Wilson's informal "kitchen cabinet".

Frequent and rising Israeli settler attacks on Palestinians almost always go unpunished.

Indeed, often, Israeli soldiers stand by and watch as Israeli settlers go on the rampage. The situation is so bad that a boy like Yousef Ikhlayl, 17, can be killed and there is no investigation or accountability.

So when an Israeli settler got sentenced to prison for torturing and abusing a Palestinian child, it was quite an event, as Haaretz reported:


Prominent rabbis, public officials and a Knesset member, on Saturday, held a send off for a criminal about to enter prison after being convicted of abusing a Palestinian youth.

The event was held in the West Bank Shilo settlement in honor of Zvi Struck, who was convicted of abusing a Palestinian youth in July 2007, together with another man whose identity remains unknown. The two beat the youth up, bound him, fired their guns close to him, undressed him and threw him naked at the roadside. Three months earlier the two men had beaten up the same youth and killed a day-old kid.

The Jerusalem District Court sentenced Struck to 18th months in prison, which the Supreme Court extended after an appeal to 30 months.

According to Haaretz, “The send off was led by Bnei Akiva yeshivas head Rabbi Haim Drukman and Kiryat Arba Rabbi Dov Lior, Binyamin Council head Avi Ro’eh, his deputy Motti Yogev and MK [Knesset member] Arye Eldad.”

1) The first map is intentionally misleading, or in other words is just a lie. There was no "Palestinian land" prior to 1947. There was a British mandate over the whole region.

2) So the only land that can be called "Palestinian" is on the second map. It was Palestinian for several minutes - until they rejected the UN plan, and joined Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq and Lebanon to attack Israel with the purpose of destroying it. They don't deny this historical fact.

3) The 3rd map is a result of a war that the Arabs started and lost. Same thing happened in Europe when the Germans lost in WWI. Don't want to lose land - don't start wars with intention of eliminating the neighbor country

4) Another lie in map 3 is calling pre-1967 borders Palestinian. That was land occupied by Egypt in Gaza and by Jordan in the West Bank.

5) Map 4 is an intermediate stage of post Oslo agreements when most of the West bank was supposed to gradually be handed over to the Palestinians , as they start fighting their terror groups. Instead they only encourage the terrorists, and teach hatred to kids in elementary schools.

So this poster is just misleading propaganda. I'm not even going into the whole historic argument about a Jewish state being there for thousands of years.

Having said that, I still think Palestinians should have their own state, without any Israelis interfering with their lives. The problem is that it is posters like this that prevent any agreement because it is posters like this that mislead Palestinians into thinking that they are entitled to the whole land, and they shouldn't ever compromise. This sort of thinking keeps them stateless for 65 years now.

Yes, keeping in mind the Jewish influence on US media, and keeping in mind the Arab and Muslim influence on European media etc.

Well it is not Israeli influence because there aren't many Israeli journalists in the US. But there are many Jewish ones. And I don't mean religion - I mean ethnicity.

As for Arab or Muslim influence in Europe, that's simple: there's a rapidly growing Arab and Muslim population in Europe, and naturally it affects the public opinion and therefore the media. I have nothing against that in principle - I just notice a fact. And Europe is basically an energy hostage of the Muslim world. I wonder how the European media changes as Israelis keep finding more natural gas and oil.

They will have a nice city. You are willing to take that away from them just to make a point?

A single entity that was a British Mandate - not the land of the Palestinian people.

In the ancient times the region around Gaza was Philistinian, so what?

The map should have colored the mandate differently from the real Palestinian proposed in the UN plan. If you color it the same way as the land after UN partition plan, you are intentionally misleading people into thinking that that land belonged to Palestinians - it did not, and you know it. Same goes for your second point.

1) If you want people not to arrogate other peoples lands - don't murder millions of them in gas chambers.

2)And this land was Jewish for millenia.

And it was never Palestinian. It was under Jewish rule, Roman rule, Turkish, British - any thing but Palestinian.

And just like most of the Jews, most of the Arabs immigrated into that land in the 20th century from Egypt, Iraq etc.

I don't know where you're from, but all of today's maps are based on some people arrogating other peoples lands.

InfraBlue wrote:

Again, that land is the geopolitical entity that the British Mandate for Palestine delineated as Palestine. The state of Israel is presently in control of that land."

I can't see how this has anything to do with the fact that Egypt was in control of Gaza, and Jordan in control of the west bank. If you don't paint them the same color as Egypt and Jordan - you're lying.

This land is also call Israel, Judah, Samaria.. and I'm sure in Chinese it's called something else. I don't care what some cultures call some regions. There is a country called UK, Egypt, Jordan and Israel.

InfraBlue wrote:

Maps like this merely show the reality of the situation"

No. It shows some extreme ideology view that wants to keep fighting forever and never let the kids have a normal future. To be fair, so is the settelers' view of the greater Israel . Too bad some people don't care enough about their children to stop fighting for pointless ideologies.