Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@izzythepush,

The Guardian is not exactly the most unbiased paper. Or any UK media for that matter.

No one shoots anyone for sport. You don't want others to use this kind of language, don't use it as well. I also heard that a teenager was shot while trying to jump the border fence. I feel bad for the teenager, but a border is a border. I wouldn't go near any border fence in the middle of a conflict - that's irresponsible at the least. And many teenagers like that one blew up buses with civilians (you would say for sport), so border units have a good reason to be jumpy. Still, too bad that happened. It would be great to have a border there like between France and Germany. Maybe one day it will happen.

And you ingored what I wrote. I admit that now there's violence from both sides. Rockets are also flying right now into Israel. I was talking about 2 years after 2005 when Israel made a sacrifice of uprooting Jews from their homes in order to give all of Gaza to the Palestinians. In responce came years of thousands of rockets on Israeli towns.

Gaza is not as sealed as you say. It used to have a fully open border with Egypt. Until even the Egyptians realized that Gaza is impossible to deal with and closed the border. The naval blockade has reasons too. Don't act like you don't know about numerous Iranian ships sent to Gaza with advanced rockets that were stopped by this blockade. I hope the Palestinians in Gaza try not firing rockets for a few years and not smuggling weapons via tunnels - just as an experiment and see what happens.

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@0bserver,

The Guardian is dedicated to the very highest standards of journalism and has won numerous awards.

If you're going to go down the path of so many other supporters of Israel and deny reports because you don't like the source we're done.

UK Media is a lot better that American. The run up to the Iraq war was a case in point. What have you got against the UK?

I never ignored what you wrote. You were peddling the myth that Israel never provokes, and always responds to attacks. It's the other way round.

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@izzythepush,

So the Israelis just wanted to be blown up in buses by Hamas? Really, this is just ridiculous.

I understand that you support the Palestinian cause and that a large portion of their suffering is caused by occupation. But another portion is just the lack of the ability to take responsibility for ones own well being. Other Arab countries were also based on the culture of Israel being the source of all their troubles. They are gradually waking up from that illusion now. Gaza is an example of a missed opportunity. They could have started to build their state. Instead they prefer to keep fighting - who knows for what - and blaming Israel for everything. Just like individuals, peoples also have to grow up - you can't be an angry teenager forever.

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@0bserver,

If there is a bias at the BBC, it's towards Israel. So much does not get reported.

AMW monitored BBC Online news articles about violence between Israelis and Palestinians over four months (February-May 2009). This aspect was chosen because it is one of the most reported in a conflict that is almost always in the news, and thus shapes public attitudes towards the peoples involved.

Quote:

AMW analysed the prominence of each side's viewpoint and version of events by monitoring how many words were devoted to quoting and paraphrasing Israeli and Palestinian sources, and in what order they were reported. AMW also analysed the prevalence with which each side were portrayed as instigating or responding to violence.

While every BBC article included Israeli sources, 35% had no Palestinian sources. Some of those articles omitted Palestinian statements and viewpoints that were available in other respected news outlets, such as reactions to Israeli violence or explaining why Palestinian violence took place. Of the 65% of articles containing Palestinian sources, 82% devoted more words to Israeli sources. This, as the study says, is "a woeful imbalance".

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2009/jun/26/bbc-anti-israel-bias

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@0bserver,

The problem is that you're only getting half the story. Simple answers are the most appealing and Israel is extremely media savvy, ensuring that its message gets across all the time.

The Arab world is just starting to experience democracy. America was initially very quiet about the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt because of the fundamental clash between American values and American interests. Unpopular dictators have been propped up with American money and arms, and the only people who were visibly taking a stand against the hegemony were Islamic fundamentalists.

Growing up means taking responsibility for your actions and that applies to America and the West too. So many Americans think that Iran is anti-American because it's populated by fundamentalist nutters who 'hate our freedoms.' Iranians distrust America because of a CIA/MI5 sponsored coup in the 1950s that deposed a democratically elected government and imposed an autocratic Shah.

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@izzythepush,

Don't forget to factor in the reliability of Israeli vs Palestinian sources. Remember this resurrection video?

http://r4---sn-jc47eu7z.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?app=youtube_gdata&devkey=AX8iKz393pCCMUL6wqrPOZoO88HsQjpE1a8d1GxQnGDm&el=videos&upn=5Np9CwuuYCw&uaopt=no-save&source=youtube&itag=18&id=c51cf95a71de9a4c&ip=174.119.142.243&ipbits=0&expire=1376333880&sparams=expire,id,ip,ipbits,itag,source,uaopt,upn&signature=2BBC3FEB68E3247DBABC7D9F26560FDF6B6C4869.833AF38D5FA51AE15BD1E2F85588A1FA8C923D6A&key=cms1&redirect_counter=2&cms_redirect=yes&ms=tsu&mt=1376305027&mv=m

BBC is more anti Israeli than Al-Jazeera these days. I don't want to overgeneralize, but UK looks bad in terms of unbiased media and antisemitism. I'm not sure why that's the case.

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@izzythepush,

And who gave them those awards? Every media reflects the public it works for. No media is unbiased. UK public is anti-Israeli in its majority and so is the media.

I never deny reports that come from reliable sources, preferably sources that have a reputation of being unbiased. UK media on science and technology is excellent. On Middle East politics - not so much. Still, I will listen to what they say, and cross check it with other sources. I admit I never heard any blunt lies from the BBC, but a lot of half truths.

Some American media is biased too. No question there. That's why I never limit my information to one source.

"myth that Israel never provokes, and always responds to attacks. It's the other way round."

Well, that's your opinion. I see the opposite in most cases. In some cases Israel does provoke. Like this recent settlement move. But then again, if rockets start flying in response to building - you can't call that proportional too.
I prefer the approach of this guy:
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2013/05/2013514104857113718.html

I hope more Palestinians get as wise as him

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@izzythepush,

"Israel is extremely media savvy" - are you being sarcastic? PR is the worst problem of Israel today. Palestinians are the world champions of PR. Israelis know how to do many things well, but really really not the media thing.

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@0bserver,

It's probably the case because you've swallowed so much pro Israeli stuff. Did you not read the article? The BBC's bias is pro Israel, but claiming the opposite makes people believe falsehoods just like Fox News' claim about Liberal Media bias. It's nonsense, America has got the most right wing Media stations in the Western World, and that's without Fox News.

It's good that an unbiased American filmmaker, through the use of blurry images, gives substantive proof that all Palestinian casualties are fictional. Honestly, you attack the bias of The Guardian then expect dodgy footage of a bunch of blobs to be taken as Gospel.

Can you specifically address what exactly is anti-Semitic about the BBC's coverage? I know Israel likes to use the term anti-Semitism to silence all opposition. Nobody likes to be branded a bigot, but research has shown the opposite is true. If you throw enough mud some of it sticks.

If the white South Africans had been able to employ the term 'anti-Boer' as effectively as Israel has used allegations of anti-Semitism then the apartheid state would still be running things and Nelson Mandela would have died in Robin Island a long time ago.

Just out of interest what do you consider an unbiased news source?

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@0bserver,

Of course it is, during any conflict the Israelis put forward a fluent English speaker, usually Mark Regev, to push their point. He talks in a way familiar to us, and he's dressed like a Western politician. Palestine tends to put forward some "beardie weirdie" who clearly struggles to be fluent.

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@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

I never deny reports that come from reliable sources, preferably sources that have a reputation of being unbiased. UK media on science and technology is excellent. On Middle East politics - not so much.

I agree with you, during operation Cast Lead, Aljazeera was far more reliable. The BBC is too biased in favour of Israel regardless of all the mud throwing.

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@0bserver,

Quote:

Well, that's your opinion. I see the opposite in most cases. In some cases Israel does provoke. Like this recent settlement move. But then again, if rockets start flying in response to building - you can't call that proportional too.

So what would be an proportional response to Israel taking more and more land ahead of any Palestinian state deal? Just sit back and take the crumbs they might be lucky enough to be left with?

http://davidshoebridge.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Shrinking-Palestine-1024x724.jpg

Israeli Gov’t mocks ‘Peace Talks’ with announcement of 1200 New Squatter homes in Occupied Palestine

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@0bserver,

The wise guy, is a Palestinian American who's been accused of putting personal profit ahead of a just settlement.

Quote:

The Palestinian Boycott Divestment and Sanctions National Committee, the steering group of the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) campaign issued the following statement today condemning the “normalization” activities of Palestinian-American tycoon Bashar Masri whom it accused of advancing “personal interests and profit making at the expense of Palestinian rights.”

Masri is renowned as the developer of “Rawabi,” a Qatari-financed luxury housing development built on West Bank land confiscated from three Palestinian villages by the Palestinian Authority and handed over to Masri’s private firm. The Electronic Intifada has previously reported on some of Masri’s activities in relation to Rawabi.

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/boycott-committee-palestinian-rawabi-tycoon-bashar-masri-must-end-all

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@0bserver,

Rathan than using generalized criticism about any media, how about providing proof that what they print is not true by providing a more reliable source.

FYI, nobody or any organization is perfect, although you might believe you are!

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@0bserver,

0bserver wrote:

I never deny reports that come from reliable sources, preferably sources that have a reputation of being unbiased. UK media on science and technology is excellent. On Middle East politics - not so much. Still, I will listen to what they say, and cross check it with other sources. I admit I never heard any blunt lies from the BBC, but a lot of half truths.

Some American media is biased too. No question there. That's why I never limit my information to one source.

Unlike America, in the UK there are strict laws about impartiality in broadcast news, particularly with the BBC.

This is reviewed regularly.

Quote:

The Board of Governors has today published the terms of reference and announced the Chairman and members of the independent panel it has appointed to review the impartiality of the BBC's coverage of business.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/11_november/22/business.shtml

Due to the general public's ignorance about the Israel/Palestine conflict, the power of the Israeli lobby and a fear of being branded anti-Semitic they are biased in favour of Israel, though not as much as others.

What's quite telling is that you dismiss UK broadcast media as being biased, even though there is legislation to ensure impartiality, but will only accept that only some American broadcast media is biased even though no such legislation exists.

I've been down this route before with supporters of Israel. No evidence is good enough for them, it's all biased against Israel. So much so, that for a while I only provided Israeli sources, B'Tselem and Haaretz, but even that wasn't good enough for them.

Btw, impartiality laws only cover broadcast, not print, media, so please don't come back with something from The Daily Mail website showing nothing but bias.

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@revelette,

Come on! You can't be serious! Read my fisrt post. I explained exactly why this map is a complete lie. And intended to perpetuate the conflict and cause more Palestinian suffering. When will the Palestinian supporters stop undermining Palestinian future?

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@izzythepush,

Personal profit is what makes succesful societies. Extreme ideologies is what perpetuates violence. I hope more Palestinians start caring about their own personal profit and the well being of their kids. Same goes for extreme right of Israeli politics. Who cares where Abraham burried his wife? Leave Hebron to the Palestinians, and Leave Ashdod to the Israelis. No good comes out of eternal fighting.

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@0bserver,

You're starting to sound like Dick Cheney.

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@izzythepush,

And who makes that legislation in the UK? People like this one?

http://journalists.sky.com/article/0gSt0BNd6T4uA/articles/2?q=Patrick+Mercer

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@izzythepush,

Can't see the connection. You disagree that people who are better off economically are less likely to be violent?

You want to compare apples to apples. You don't like Jewish settlements - start bulding Palestinian cities. What's wrong with that? The only downside is that the rocket people lose points in the public opinion.

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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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