Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

The fact that Steve Clemons chose to work for this channel says it all about his political leanings. He has no morals; all he cares is moola.

Paris Saint-Germain, which is a soccer club, is also owned by Qatar.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
That's correct. The Israeli regime is a necessarily oppressive state. Necessarily oppressive states must be destroyed and replaced with pluralistic, egalitarian, and democratic states.

That makes you a war criminal. International law forbids wars of aggression. Waging an unending war of annihilation against Israel until they are destroyed is a war crime.

I am not a war criminal. I have committed no war crimes. I am against wars of aggression. I am using the word "destroy" in the sense of "to put an end to; eliminate," the way the apartheid states in South Africa and what was then South West Africa were destroyed. The destruction of the oppressive Israeli state should be carried out by imposing crippling sanctions and boycotts against it until it relents, and the peoples of Palestine replace it with a state, pluralistic, egalitarian and democratic for all of themselves.

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
Your assertion is false.

That is incorrect. Land For Peace only means handing land over to the Palestinians if they make peace in return.

You're the one talking about "Land For Peace," which itself is oppressive against the Palestinains because it denies their Right of Return, not I.

oralloy wrote:

Your war crimes mean Israel will never be required to hand any land over to the Palestinians.

Your assertion is based on a falsehood. I have no war crimes.

oralloy wrote:

But don't worry. The Palestinians will be able to make do with a state based on the Gaza Strip alone.

Your opinion is duly noted.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
Mine is not a false accusation.

That is incorrect. You are falsely accusing Israel of imaginary atrocities.

Wrong. I accuse Israel of its real and actual atrocities.

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@InfraBlue,

There are no such atrocities. So your accusations are false.

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@InfraBlue,

Why are you speaking for Palestine? I can attest to the fact most non-Muslim believers around the world would love to fight for Israel. Don't just read English articles. Our earth also has other channels other than CNN and BBC.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

There are no such atrocities.

Uh-huh.

oralloy wrote:

So your accusations are false.

Nuh-uh.

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@InfraBlue,

You cannot provide any evidence of Israel committing atrocities.

Acts of criminals who are punished by serving long prison sentences in Israeli prisons don't count as acts by Israel.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

The destruction of the oppressive Israeli state should be carried out by imposing crippling sanctions and boycotts against it until it relents, and the peoples of Palestine replace it with a state, pluralistic, egalitarian and democratic for all of themselves.

The world is never going to do that, because Israel isn't doing anything wrong.

InfraBlue wrote:

You're the one talking about "Land For Peace," which itself is oppressive against the Palestinians because it denies their Right of Return, not I.

Land For Peace is the system by which the world asks for the Palestinians to be given land to form their own sovereign country. Without Land For Peace, the world does not ask for any land to be given to the Palestinians.

There is no such thing as a right of return. Governments have the right to seize property through eminent domain. The person who has to give up their property has the right to be fairly compensated for their lost property. But they don't have the right to prevent the government from taking their property.

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@goldberg,

I am speaking for Palestine because what is required there is a state that serves the general welfare of all of the people therein.

The people you refer to either do not understand the issues at hand in Palestine, or are outright supporters of ethnocentric oppression.

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@oralloy,

Didn't I tell you some of them work for Muslim nations? You can' t talk them into believing that Israel has been the victim. I once met another irascible guy claiming to be American. This guy even said that North Korea should be held up as a role model. He even takes issue with the fact that North Korea is a nation weighted down by penury.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

You cannot provide any evidence of Israel committing atrocities.

Yes I can.

oralloy wrote:

Acts of criminals who are punished by serving long prison sentences in Israeli prisons don't count as acts by Israel.

Um, OK.

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@InfraBlue,

Oh. I just think that you just can't use rockets to attack civilians. That sounds awful. Call me a naysayer. I don't think they are going to be able to iron out the kinks since they have different religions.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

oralloy wrote:
You cannot provide any evidence of Israel committing atrocities.

Yes I can.

It's strange how I'm not seeing you present any evidence.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
The destruction of the oppressive Israeli state should be carried out by imposing crippling sanctions and boycotts against it until it relents, and the peoples of Palestine replace it with a state, pluralistic, egalitarian and democratic for all of themselves.

The world is never going to do that, because Israel isn't doing anything wrong.

Israel is doing much wrong. The world has to be pushed to do what is right: the impelling of the Zionists to dismantle their necessarily oppressive state so that it could be replaced by a pluralistic, egalitarian and democratic one for all of the peoples in Palestine.

InfraBlue wrote:

You're the one talking about "Land For Peace," which itself is oppressive against the Palestinians because it denies their Right of Return, not I.

Land For Peace is the system by which the world asks for the Palestinians to be given land to form their own sovereign country. Without Land For Peace, the world does not ask for any land to be given to the Palestinians.[/quote]
The world agrees in the rights of refugees, and disagrees with ethnic cleansing, rights the world agrees upon through treaties and resolutions.

oralloy wrote:

There is no such thing as a right of return. Governments have the right to seize property through eminent domain. The person who has to give up their property has the right to be fairly compensated for their lost property. But they don't have the right to prevent the government from taking their property.

Eminent domain does not cover ethnic cleansing and apartheid policies and laws through which Israel exists.

1 Reply

@goldberg,

Rockets and other violence have proven to be ineffectual measures to affect change in the conflict. I'm against it.

They have to be prompted to do what's right for everyone there.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
You cannot provide any evidence of Israel committing atrocities.

Yes I can.

It's strange how I'm not seeing you present any evidence.

Go back and read my past responses to you regarding this issue.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Israel is doing much wrong.

The lack of evidence of wrongdoing says otherwise.

InfraBlue wrote:

The world has to be pushed to do what is right: the impelling of the Zionists to dismantle their necessarily oppressive state so that it could be replaced by a pluralistic, egalitarian and democratic one for all of the peoples in Palestine.

Harming Israel for no reason is not even remotely right.

InfraBlue wrote:

Eminent domain does not cover ethnic cleansing and apartheid policies and laws through which Israel exists.

No such laws.

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@oralloy,

the dispossession and denial of the right to return of psalestinian refugees is a continuing atrocity. 70 years of atrocity.
https://ohrh.law.ox.ac.uk/palestinian-refugees-and-the-right-of-return-in-international-law/#:~:text=The%20Right%20of%20Return%20is,the%20law%20of%20state%20responsibility.&text=It%20is%20illegal%20as%20a,to%20return%20to%20their%20homes.

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@MontereyJack,

The right of return would destroy Israel. What you are saying here is that Israel's very existence is an atrocity.

And there is no such right in the first place. Governments have the power to seize property through eminent domain. The only thing that Palestinians have the right to is fair compensation for what was seized.

And if you want to talk about compensating Palestinians, then let's also talk about compensating the families of Jews who have had their property seized by various governments around the world.

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@oralloy,

that's like saying prosecuting the mafia for their crimes imperils their very existence because it stripis them of their livelihoods andproperty. a crime is a crimeno matter what effect it mah have on the pperpetrator. the law is the law and the right of return is the law. because israeli zealotsdecry potntial outcomes does not make it anhy less law.

And eminent domain is a red herring. Government taking property is hedged about with a lot of restrictions. It has to be for a valid governemntal purpose, at least in purported democracies. Taking someone's [rpo[pertuy because tjey're not the preferred rligion is illegal.;. Taking palestinian propoerty because they aren't jewish is not a valid purpose. And anyway the israelis have never offered any compensation for the stolen land. they just won
't let its owners return to it. You

r attempted justifications are bogus, no surpsise there.surprise there. And I'm all for holding the governments and peoples who persecuted jews for centuries around the world accountable for their actions those actions were heinous, but they don't absolve jsraelis for foing the same things oday.

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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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