Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

What you are saying is that Israel's very existence is oppression. The right of return would destroy Israel.

That's correct. The Israeli regime is a necessarily oppressive state. Necessarily oppressive states must be destroyed and replaced with pluralistic, egalitarian, and democratic states.

oralloy wrote:

Your denial of peace under any circumstances does make it OK for Israel to keep the West Bank for themselves however.

Your assertion is false.

oralloy wrote:

So that's one good thing from all this. The Palestinians can make their state from the Gaza Strip alone.

Your opinion is duly noted.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
I have no neonazism whatsoever.

Only neonazis falsely accuse Israel of apartheid.

Mine is not a false accusation.

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@InfraBlue,

I agree with your take on apartheid.

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Quote:

WASHINGTON — With a cease-fire between Israel and Palestinian militants
underway, the Biden administration is now turning to how it can help rebuild the besieged Gaza Strip — and in turn bring pressure, through promises of financial support, on Hamas not to resume fighting.

President Biden had urged Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel to accept a cease-fire, but it did not take effect until the violence had forced more than 72,000 Palestinians from their homes in Gaza, pockets of which are now just piles of rubble where tall buildings once stood.

“I believe the Palestinians and Israelis equally deserve to live safely and securely,” Mr. Biden said on Thursday during brief remarks delivered at the White House, “and to enjoy equal measures of freedom, prosperity and democracy.”

A senior Biden administration official said the United States was planning to be at the fore of an international response, most likely costing billions of dollars, to include restoring health and education services, and other reconstruction.

The senior official said that rebuilding Gaza — which will most likely be coordinated through the United Nations — was at the top of a list of festering diplomatic obstacles that the administration would face between Israel and the Palestinian Authority now that the fighting was to wind down.

Mr. Biden is expected to consider other initiatives. American diplomats who had shelved the prospects of brokering a broader peace agreement between the two sides will take a new look at the issue of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, said the senior official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions. The Biden administration will also refocus on how to build on new alliances between Israel and Arab states that were brokered last year, largely at the behest of President Donald J. Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/20/us/politics/israel-gaza-hamas-biden-netanyahu.html

Guess we'll see how Biden leans once various views within the democratic party start to voice louder opinions,

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They have already reached a peace deal. We don' need finger-wagging propaganda. What Hamas has to do is abide by the peace deal and refrain from making more rockets. It's the economy, stupid.

Yet I have doubts about Hamas's real motives. I think its leaders just want to manage to find more time for the next attack, meaning it doesn't have more rockets. "Hamas has limited supplies of 122mm Grad rockets," according to Forbes.

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Occupation and Statelessness: Juan Cole interviewed by Steve Clemons, “The Bottom Line”

“While unquestioning support for Israel is still the name of the game in Washington, DC, a growing number of Democrats are demanding political rights for Palestinians.

University of Michigan Professor Juan Cole is the founder of Informed Comment, a blog on US foreign policy in the Middle East. He tells host Steve Clemons that people are making the connection between Black Lives Matter and Palestine.

And while the “Arab street” has become divided and muted by Arab dictatorships, solidarity with Palestinians has shifted online globally.

Watch this wide-ranging conversation on the shifting dynamics of the Palestinian narrative.”

Al Jazeera English: Steve Clemons, The Bottom Line interviews Juan Cole: “Are attitudes towards Palestine shifting in the US? | The Bottom Line

(Unfortunately, while I got some of it by lip reading and turning it up full blast, I am not an expert at lip reading to say the least. I hate when youtube don't always have captions. )

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@revelette3,

On the BBC website there is an article by N American correspondent Anthony Zurcher in which he describes the change in the Democrat party as tectonic.

He puts it down to a younger generation who haven’t heard stories of the “brave struggle for survival,” at the beginning and instead see a huge military colonial power oppressing the native population.

The make up of the legislature has changed, currently 23% of the make up of both houses is non white. Twenty years ago it was just 11%, and in 1945 it was only 1%.

Biden is finding himself increasingly out of step with his base on this matter.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

I have just always liked Juan Cole since I have become interested in ME issues. But you're right about congress, but I am wondering if there has been a poll or some survey on facebook or some other social media to know what ordinary people think; if anything.

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@revelette3,

In the BBC article Zurcher quotes a pollster called John Zogby so there probably was some sort of poll.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

I remember some time back Zogby correctly predicted a Republican victory, and progressives and conservatives alike kept thinking of him as a conservative pollster because of it.

Of course after years of normal polling now eventually that delusion faded and now he is just regarded as a normal pollster.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

That's correct. The Israeli regime is a necessarily oppressive state. Necessarily oppressive states must be destroyed and replaced with pluralistic, egalitarian, and democratic states.

That makes you a war criminal. International law forbids wars of aggression. Waging an unending war of annihilation against Israel until they are destroyed is a war crime.

InfraBlue wrote:

Your assertion is false.

That is incorrect. Land For Peace only means handing land over to the Palestinians if they make peace in return.

Your war crimes mean Israel will never be required to hand any land over to the Palestinians.

But don't worry. The Palestinians will be able to make do with a state based on the Gaza Strip alone.

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

Mine is not a false accusation.

That is incorrect. You are falsely accusing Israel of imaginary atrocities.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I agree with your take on apartheid.

Your neonazism is appalling as well. Shame on you!

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@revelette3,

revelette3 wrote:

While unquestioning support for Israel is still the name of the game in Washington, DC, a growing number of Democrats are demanding political rights for Palestinians.

Progressives always support terrorists and murderers. Look at how happy progressives were about the 9/11 attacks.

revelette3 wrote:

He tells host Steve Clemons that people are making the connection between Black Lives Matter and Palestine.

I can see that connection too. BLM and Palestinians are both unhappy about being prevented from murdering people.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

deeply toxic lies are part of the oralloy playbook.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

These are your opinions and fantsiers alone not reality or international law. IIsraeli intransigence is losing them american kapproval.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

Wrong again. Wars of aggression are a violation of international law. Don't you remember all the progressive whining when W invaded Iraq in 2003?

No intransigence on Israel's side. All the intransigence is on the part of people who refuse to make peace with Israel and insist on unending war until Israel is destroyed.

Shame on you for falsely accusing Jews of imaginary wrongdoing however. That's pretty ugly.

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@MontereyJack,

You're a phony. You can't back up anything that you say about me.

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Juan Cole? Juan Cole once said he was embittered by the fact that liberal publications like the New York Times still blanch at the talk of Islamism" It presents Islam negatively ," he wrote. By contrast, the Times has published several articles-full of unctuous words-singing the praises of his books and his professed loyalty to Islamism even he's white.

This Juan Cole also argues in another article that China should play ball with Iran and Russia, forming a new alliance with a view to curtailing America's global leadership. and the EU's ambitions. North Korea needs this American professor.

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Al Jazeera ? Steve Clemons? Steve Clemons used to write for The Atlantic . Al Jazeera belongs to Qatar, which still has close ties to Islam militants scornful of Western values.

That's why only Muslim believers would asseverate that Al Jazeera can be trusted. It also sides with Palestine and fulminates against Israel. And its journalists don't care about the so-called liberal order even some of them used to work for BBC. They just get paid by Qatar and act like its stooges . Qatar has also found another way to project power. You could call it soccer diplomacy

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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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