63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 06:04 am
@puzzledperson,
puzzledperson wrote:
oralloy wrote: "After Ariel Sharon slipped into a coma, Ehud Olmert tried negotiating again. This time the Palestinians did nothing but stonewall the negotiations."

Not so: Olmert got along well with the Palestinian Authority of the West Bank, as shown by the Annapolis Conference of 2007:

"A joint understanding, read by US president George Bush, stated that "In furtherance of the goal of two states, Israel and Palestine, living side by side in peace and security" the parties agreed to"immediately launch good-faith bilateral negotiations in order to conclude a peace treaty, resolving all outstanding issues, including all core issues without exception, as specified in previous agreements". A steering committee would meet from 12 December 2007, followed by biweekly negotiations between President Abbas and Prime Minister Olmert.

"The parties also committed to immediately implement their respective obligations under the Roadmap for peace and to continue the implementation of it until they had reached a peace treaty, to be concluded before the end of 2008."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annapolis_Conference

It was Hamas (primarily in Gaza) that responded to peace overtures with unremitting violence. That was when Olmert targeted their leadership.

There may have been a promising start, but Ehud Olmert spent his last years in office twiddling his thumbs at an empty negotiation table.


puzzledperson wrote:
Hamas was culpable, not Olmert. But when Netanyahu and Likud retook power, Likud and Hamas became jointly culpable for pursuing the joint policy of no peace settlement and no Palestinian state.

Likud is only in power right now because the Palestinians offered only aggression when previous governments tried to make peace.

I also note that Mr. Netanyahu was willing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians a year or so ago.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 06:05 am
@puzzledperson,
puzzledperson wrote:
Israel should recognize the Palestinian Authority as the legitimate representative of the Palestinian people (whether it is or not) and recognize/create an independent Palestinian state consisting of the West Bank. The Gaza Strip would retain its current status.

Would this be done unilaterally à la Sharon, or done via Oslo-style negotiations with Fatah?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 06:06 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
I too wish the Israelis could behave rationally once in a while.

They always behave rationally.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 06:07 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
I'm not believing that all Israelis think genocide is a good thing.

No Israeli thinks that genocide is a good thing.


Builder wrote:
I also think it's a very bad idea that military aid is given to a nation/state that has nuclear weapons, but isn't a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, or in any way under the auspices of the International Atomic Energy Agency.

It prevents the Muslims from starting wars that would require Israel to smash them in self defense. The Middle East is much more stable because of it.


Builder wrote:
Israel's admin jumps up and down about any kind of nuclear activity in Iran, while denying anyone entry to their own nuclear facilities/arsenal.
Hypocrisy much?

Is it hypocrisy that bank robbers are prohibited from carrying guns while the police are allowed to carry them?
Olivier5
 
  4  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 06:32 am
@oralloy,
Is that an axiom, a credo, or a desire? Cause it can't be a fact.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 06:51 am
@Olivier5,
Any examples of irrational behavior on their part?
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 07:09 am
@oralloy,
Troops storm hospital in disguise
Source: NZ Herald

Leaked CCTV footage has shown the terrifying moment Israeli troops stormed a hospital in disguise and killing the brother of a man suspected in a knife attack.

The raid took place in Hebron, a flashpoint in the West Bank area.

Some of the forces were dressed in traditional Arab garb with fake beards. One appears to be impersonating a pregnant woman and is pushed in a wheelchair.

Jihad Shawar, the director of the hospital, said 20 men had stormed the building overnight.

Read more: http://m.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11544838
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 07:21 am
@puzzledperson,
Missed that
puzzledperson wrote:
An alliance of political parties participating in a government jointly = a "coalition" in my book, and that's standard nomenclature in English usage.
Since that is "standard nomenclature in English usage": how is the standard nomenclature in English usage for a government, made up of such a coalition and other parties?

In German (Koalition), Dutch (coalitie) and French (coalition) [just because I know a bit of those languages] for instance, coalitions are governments in which several political parties cooperate.

In these above mentioned languages, One Israel was an alliance of the Labor Party, Meimad and Gesher. And One Israel formed a coalition with Shas, Meretz, Yisrael BaAliyah, the Centre Party, the National Religious Party and United Torah Judaism.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 08:21 am
Quote:
Far right Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is arriving in Washington, D.C., Monday, and will apparently ask the US to almost double its $3 bn. a year in aid to $5 bn.

source[url]
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 08:52 am
@revelette2,
Quote:
Far right Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu is arriving in Washington, D.C., Monday, and will apparently ask the US to almost double its $3 bn. a year in aid to $5 bn.

That's only one-half of the good news:
http://able2know.org/topic/127639-320#post-6065599


revelette2 wrote:

Wow, that Juan Cole scumbag sure is a Nazi.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 12:39 pm
@oralloy,
Pouring billions of dollars and vast political capital into the unsustainable colonization of a fee acres of land.

Undermining the Jewish demographic majority in doing so (the one state scenario is becoming inevitable).

Requiring others to recognize the Jewish nature of their state at the same time as they undermine it.

Allowing the religious frindge to take over a state originally built by secular zionists.

Preventing people to mary the way and with whom they want.

Supporting Cheikh Yassine before they assassinated him.

I could go on.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 01:20 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Pouring billions of dollars and vast political capital into the unsustainable colonization of a fee acres of land.

But it isn't unsustainable. The fact that the Palestinians refuse to ever make peace means that Israel will ultimately get to keep Area C (Area B as well if Israel moves to seize it).


Olivier5 wrote:
Undermining the Jewish demographic majority in doing so (the one state scenario is becoming inevitable).

The one state scenario is a Palestinian delusion. All Israel needs to do is declare the Security Fence as their official border, and Palestinians outside the Security Fence will never become citizens of Israel.


Olivier5 wrote:
Requiring others to recognize the Jewish nature of their state at the same time as they undermine it.

This is a fair requirement of any peace deal. Land for Peace means that in exchange for land, Israel will receive legitimacy and acceptance.


Olivier5 wrote:
Allowing the religious frindge to take over a state originally built by secular zionists.

I do not agree that the religious fringe has taken over. And the religious fringe helped to build the state too.


Olivier5 wrote:
Preventing people to mary the way and with whom they want.

I do not believe that Israel does that.


Olivier5 wrote:
Supporting Cheikh Yassine before they assassinated him.

I've never heard of this person.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 01:54 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Wow, that Juan Cole scumbag sure is a Nazi.
Could you verify this?
bobsal u1553115
 
  4  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 02:26 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Could you verify this?


Don't waste any time waiting for verification. If he could document that lie he'd have shown it with great glee. So he just sneers, "Nazi". Pathetic.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 02:57 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Wow, that Juan Cole scumbag sure is a Nazi.

Could you verify this?

Just look at all the hateful lies that the Nazi posted on his hate blog (revelette posted the link).
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  4  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 04:14 pm
there is ansolutely nothing that is in the least nazi-like in that juan cole piece. oralloy has tried playing thd nazi card so many times so foolishly that his accusation stinks like month old fish.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 04:23 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
there is ansolutely nothing that is in the least nazi-like in that juan cole piece.

The horrible lies about Israel in the article are quite typical of Nazis like Juan Cole.


MontereyJack wrote:
oralloy has tried playing thd nazi card so many times so foolishly that his accusation stinks like month old fish.

Does it bother you when Nazis are outed?
izzythepush
 
  2  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 04:42 pm
@MontereyJack,
Oralboy is a ******* Nazi, he calls whole groups of people vermin and calls for genocide, you can't get more Nazi than that.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Fri 13 Nov, 2015 07:18 pm
@izzythepush,
I guess there is some hope for some of us. At least we recognize lying bullshyt as posted by oralboy when we see it.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 06:24 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
his accusation stinks like month old fish.


Quite much like the accuser.
0 Replies
 
 

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