63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 06:26 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Does it bother you when Nazis are outed?


Not at all, do you plan on outing one other than yourself?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 06:44 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Does it bother you when Nazis are outed?
The few Nazis still being alive are in their 90's. *
But I do think it's correct that they are outed.

* That's at least in the German meaning of 'Nazi'. But I do know that Americans use that term inflationary.
bobsal u1553115
 
  -1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 09:05 am
@Walter Hinteler,
"Inflammatory" not "inflationary", but you are correct about that. Americans have cried "Nazi" into triviality, and its dangerous and a shame.
puzzledperson
 
  -1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 10:42 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Looks the same to me:

http://www.hirnfurz.com

What's the difference in translation alluded to?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 10:59 am
@puzzledperson,
Are you questioning that website (I don't know it) or the German word "hirnfurz" (which I know: a foolish, idiotic comment, statement)?
puzzledperson
 
  0  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:26 am
@oralloy,
oralloy: "I also note that Mr. Netanyahu was willing to negotiate peace with the Palestinians a year or so ago."

So was Hamas willing to negotiate peace with Israel. But there is a difference between real offers and those made as propaganda ploys. There is also a difference between cease-fire and peace. Finally, there is a difference between peace and the creation of a Palestinian state.

I don't understand why you keep ignoring the fact that the Likud Party charter explicitly rejects the existence of a Palestinian state. I certainly don't ignore Hamas' rejection of the state of Israel in its own charter. It seems abundantly clear that both parties collude to prevent a decisive and lasting solution to the conflict. Hamas' existence depends on unresolved grievances; Likud's political dominance depends on unresolved security concerns.

As long as Israel allows the cooperation or noncooperation of Hamas militants to determine the process outcome, stalemate and endless simmering conflict are inevitable. Only by cutting Hamas out of the loop can progress be made.

Recognize the Palestinian Authority as the representative of the Palestinian people. Create an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank. Use subsidies and trade to create a prosperous economy there and to create affordable housing which lures Palestinian residents of Gaza to immigrate into the new state. With no popular following or resident population to speak of, Hamas will collapse as a political authority. At that time, call a plebiscite to annex Gaza into the new state under the governance of the Palestinian Authority.

Is there something naive or unworkable about this? Palestinians want reparations. Building them nice new housing with subsidized low rents in a thriving economy in their own independent state seems to fit the bill. Its easy to nurse longstanding political grievances when you're living in poverty and political impotence; not so easy when you're living well in your own sovereign nation. Hamas knows this, which is why they help Likud perpetuate the former.
puzzledperson
 
  -2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Please don't be so prickly and dense. You said that hirnfurz translates differently from the English word brain-fart. I noted that numerous German language websites employ the graphic of a farting head or brain in connection with the term, and asked you to explain the difference you alluded to, that's all.

As for the difference between "alliance" and "coalition", check an English dictionary and you'll find that the words can be employed synonomously. You insist on your own phrasing and then pretend that this demonstrates an objective distinction. It doesn't. Get over it, Hinteler.

I wonder what the German for "gasbag" is?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 12:19 pm
@puzzledperson,
puzzledperson wrote:

Please don't be so prickly and dense. You said that hirnfurz translates differently from the English word brain-fart. I noted that numerous German language websites employ the graphic of a farting head or brain in connection with the term, and asked you to explain the difference you alluded to, that's all.
Okay.




puzzledperson wrote:
As for the difference between "alliance" and "coalition", check an English dictionary and you'll find that the words can be employed synonomously. You insist on your own phrasing and then pretend that this demonstrates an objective distinction. It doesn't. Get over it, Hinteler.
It's not my own phrasing but as it is used in politics, political sciences and colloquial language here, in Germany and Europe.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 02:00 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
Quote:
but you are correct about that. Americans have cried "Nazi" into triviality, and its dangerous and a shame.


Not if one understands that Nazism and German are different. There are American, French, Russian, and nationalities of all kinds that adhere to natizism.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 02:14 pm
@RABEL222,
The Germans talk about the Nazi's all the time. Just yesterday I linked to a Deutsche Welle employed German talking about the Nazi's, and the lessons that were supposed to have been learned but maybe were not. The NAZI were important, the lessons that they were supposed to teach us but that we all too often seem to have forgotten are important. I will keep talking about them. If you or BOB! dont want to hear about the NAZI's then change the channel. Head in the sand is all that some guys know how to do.
Builder
 
  2  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 02:51 pm
@oralloy,
Builder wrote:

Quote:
I also think it's a very bad idea that military aid is given to a nation/state that has nuclear weapons, but isn't a signatory to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, or in any way under the auspices of the International Atomic Energy Agency.


orolloy replied;
Quote:
It prevents the Muslims from starting wars that would require Israel to smash them in self defense. The Middle East is much more stable because of it.


Yeah, such a peaceful place, really.

Troll much?
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 03:07 pm
@puzzledperson,
Just plain rude. What a waste of several minutes of my life reading that poop.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Sat 14 Nov, 2015 11:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The NAZI were important, the lessons that they were supposed to teach us but that we all too often seem to have forgotten are important.


I've been on debate sites basically since day dot, and when any discussion/debate devolves into a thrashing out of Hitlerism, it's called Godwin's Law. Not really sure what Godwin has to do with Hitler, but another way to clarify this methodology is to cite "Reductio ad Hitlerum" This is sometimes referred to as "playing the Nazi card".

Both tactics are simply ad hominen attacks; playing the player, rather than the ball/topic/theory.

An admission of defeat, per se.

Interestingly, these "rules" were rather neatly and strictly adhered to earlier in the world of online debate.

I'm rather surprised that despite the lengthy tenure of many members of A2K, these skills have neither been developed, nor advanced.



oralloy
 
  -1  
Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:01 am
@puzzledperson,
puzzledperson wrote:
I don't understand why you keep ignoring the fact that the Likud Party charter explicitly rejects the existence of a Palestinian state.

Because it is horribly unfair to Israel. Israel spent years making fair peace offers and getting nothing but violence and murder in return. That should not be overlooked just because the Israelis finally got sick of it and elected a hard-line government.


puzzledperson wrote:
Only by cutting Hamas out of the loop can progress be made.

Recognize the Palestinian Authority as the representative of the Palestinian people. Create an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank. Use subsidies and trade to create a prosperous economy there and to create affordable housing which lures Palestinian residents of Gaza to immigrate into the new state. With no popular following or resident population to speak of, Hamas will collapse as a political authority. At that time, call a plebiscite to annex Gaza into the new state under the governance of the Palestinian Authority.

Is there something naive or unworkable about this?

I'm still curious if you mean to create the West Bank state via Oslo-style negotiations with Fatah, or if you mean it to be created unilaterally.

Your idea sounds intriguing.

One of the diplomats who has long been working towards resolving this conflict has also recently come up with an interesting idea to resume the peace process. I forget which diplomat it is (perhaps Dennis Ross), but his idea is to have a coalition of Arab states speak for the Palestinians in negotiations, and have Israel negotiate with those Arab states instead of with Abbas or some other Palestinian leader.

But I'm kind of jaded and worn out. If you or that diplomat succeed in getting the peace process back on track, more power to you. But for now I'm just going to sit on the sidelines and glare balefully at the Palestinians.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:07 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
Yeah, such a peaceful place, really.

40 years since the last war between Israel and the Arab states. No use of nuclear weapons. Sounds like a success to me.


Builder wrote:
Troll much?

Do you even know what that term means?
oralloy
 
  -2  
Sun 15 Nov, 2015 11:08 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
Both tactics are simply ad hominen attacks; playing the player, rather than the ball/topic/theory.

An admission of defeat, per se.

Hardly an admission of defeat.

When Nazis spout horrendous lies about Israel, the appropriate response is to call them a Nazi and dismiss everything that they have to say.
Builder
 
  1  
Sun 15 Nov, 2015 09:18 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
When Nazis spout horrendous lies about Israel, the appropriate response is to call them a Nazi .....


Care to share some of these lies?

The Israeli PM very recently stated that France's government was making a "grave mistake" in joining other EU nations in calling for statehood for Palestine.

Builder
 
  2  
Sun 15 Nov, 2015 09:27 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
40 years since the last war between Israel and the Arab states.


You're on this thread, making that claim?

Quote:
Operation Pillar of Defence (14-21 November 2012)

Israel and Hamas non-international armed conflict in Gaza

On 14 November 2012, Israel launched Operation Pillar of Defence, its largest military operation in Gaza since Operation Cast Lead in 2009. It started with an air strike that killed the commander of Hamas's military wing, Ahmed Jabari, who, according to Israel, was responsible for terrorist acts against Israel from Gaza. Israel's position was that the operation was intended to protect Israeli civilians from rockets and mortars fired by militants in Gaza. During the conflict, Hamas targeted for the first time central cities in Israel: rockets fell on Jerusalem and Tel Aviv.

Figures show that 160 Palestinians were killed. Of these, 103 were civilians, including 33 children, 13 women and three journalists. Many others were wounded. Six Israelis were killed: two soldiers and four civilians.


Article here.
hemant12
 
  1  
Tue 17 Nov, 2015 04:17 am
The same thing happened next door in Southern Rhodesia.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Wed 25 Nov, 2015 04:36 am
@Builder,
Builder wrote:
oralloy wrote:
When Nazis spout horrendous lies about Israel, the appropriate response is to call them a Nazi and dismiss everything that they have to say.

Care to share some of these lies?

No. I prefer to dismiss them without consideration.


Builder wrote:
The Israeli PM very recently stated that France's government was making a "grave mistake" in joining other EU nations in calling for statehood for Palestine.

Awarding the Palestinians a state without also requiring them to make peace with Israel would indeed be a bad idea.

However, Israel can mitigate that by seizing control over all of Area B, leaving the Palestinian state to be composed of Area A alone.
0 Replies
 
 

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