63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Wed 22 Jul, 2015 03:57 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Finally you've realised that you can no longer deny the truth of what actually happened.

I stated what happen (or at least what we know happened) as precisely as I could. You did not. What I disagreed with was you original misrepresentations of the facts.

Quote:
I said some believe they do

Yes, and some people believe that 9/11 was a CIA false flag operation. Just because some idiots believe something doesn't mean it's worth much consideration. The idea that Israel funds ISIS is ridiculous.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Wed 22 Jul, 2015 05:56 pm
@Olivier5,
I didn't misrepresent anything. Your initial response was to deny all of it. From there you've weaselled yourself back to a grudging acceptance of what happened, and all you're left with is your opinion. As you've just demonstrated it's not exactly an informed one.

Olivier5
 
  3  
Wed 22 Jul, 2015 06:00 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Your initial response was to deny all of it.

That's a lie.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 04:35 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Your initial response was to deny all of it.

That's a lie.


Quote:
These things, as you described them, did not happen


You're the liar with a very short memory.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 05:11 am
@izzythepush,
Note the "AS YOU DESCRIBED THEM". I took issue with your approximations and misrepresentations. For all we know, Israel never funded HAMAS, and no ISRAELI ever tried to cut a deal with the nazis. This was explained to you several times already.
izzythepush
 
  -1  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 06:04 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Note the "AS YOU DESCRIBED THEM". I took issue with your approximations and misrepresentations. For all we know, Israel never funded HAMAS, and no ISRAELI ever tried to cut a deal with the nazis. This was explained to you several times already.


Exactly as I described them. You are hiding behind name changes. I don't accept your descriptions because they are misleading.

Quote:
The office of Prime Minister Ehud Olmert admitted on Wednesday that it is allowing the transfer of hundreds of millions of shekels to the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip every month.

Most of the funds enter Gaza in currency exchanges for the dollars and euros Hamas smuggles into the territory following fund-raising trips to Iran and other supportive Middle East regimes.

In a letter to the Prime Minister's Office earlier in the week, the Shurat Hadin Israel Law Center warned that the government was actively aiding the perpetuation of Hamas rule in Gaza, despite its own stated policies.

http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&amp;nid=16447<br />

Proof Israel funded Hamas post name change. (As if that would matter to anyone but an obscurant pedant)
The Lehi did try to cut a deal with the Nazis, they were Israeli. If Israel the state of Israel had wanted to distance itself from the activities of the Lehi Yitzhak Shamir would not have gone on to become the third longest serving prime minister.

The Lehi were Israeli nationalists, the fact that Israel had not been legally recognised by the UN at the time is irrelevant. They all went on to become Israeli citizens and more importantly viewed themselves as Israeli nationalists at the time.

Shamir's government did deal with the Nazi John Vorster and gave him nuclear technology. No amount of obfuscation changes that.

You are twisting and obscuring the truth by hiding behind name changes. However you want to spin twist and obscure what actually happened the end result is that you're running away from the truth. That makes you a liar, and you're lying to yourself.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 06:27 am
@izzythepush,
I'm not interested in your lies, Izzy.

Some people think the UK government is funding ISIS... I wonder now. ;-)
izzythepush
 
  -2  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 08:17 am
@Olivier5,
You're the one who is lying.

Israeli nationalists (the Lehi) tried to ally themselves with Nazi Germany.

The Israeli government gave nuclear technology to a known Nazi.

Israel funded and supported Hamas before during and after its transformation into Hamas.

These are facts, and you've run around in circles trying to disprove these facts and failed miserably. You have however confirmed that you are a liar who obfuscates with half truths.

You find the truth so hard to swallow that you need a couple of gallons of bullshit to wash it down.
georgeob1
 
  2  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 08:56 am
@izzythepush,
Poor Izzy. He combines extreme sensitivity to any even implied criticism of the UK with widespread intolerance and hatred of others. He also has an unusual proclivity for excessive and unfounded personal insults that might be offensive were it not for emptiness and somewhat silly quality of his hysterics.

He forgets that in 1936 the then King of England, Edward VIII was an avowed admirer of the newly ascendant Furher of Nazi Germany, as were many other members of a political movement in Britain that then admired Fascism. Less than two yours later the British Government led the appeasement of Hitler and a major advancement in both his grip on the German people and his power in the continent by agreeing to Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland in Czechoslovakia. There were many other factors involverd in both of these things and many Britons who opposed both of them then and later.

The point here is there are many more or less independent actors in any country or political movement and their actions over time do not always fit into a perfect pattern of what, long after the fact, appear as the "right" position or action. No country is entirely free of such things. In Lzzy's very narrow mind these qualifications apply only to the UK, and certainly not to the many objects of his narrow minded hatreds.
Foofie
 
  2  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 09:10 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

...The point here is there are many more or less independent actors in any country or political movement and their actions over time do not always fit into a perfect pattern of what, long after the fact, appear as the "right" position or action. No country is entirely free of such things. ...


Yes, nations are made up of people, not a text book script over centuries, especially when a parliament (aka, knesset) makes the rules, rather than a constitution. To extrapolate on events, based on who is in power at one point in history, could just be based on one's fixed opinion of a country and its people. With that mindset, the U.S. would still be thought of as slave-holders by the world's nations.

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 05:05 pm
@izzythepush,
Just to be clear, I despise Netanyahu and the ultra-zionists, whom I believe are fascists. And I get the idea that ISIS does benefit the Israeli government somewhat, in that it demonstrates the dangers of Islamist terrorism. But so did 9/11, which Bibi is on record saying it was great news for Israel, and yet I still don't think that the Israelis did it... Just because one benefits somehow from some development does not mean one caused it or funded it... Also, they have no need to fund ISIS; the group is up and running and awash with money.

I guess my biggest issue with these sorts of rumours is that they make the pro-pals (like me) look stupid.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Thu 23 Jul, 2015 09:13 pm
@georgeob1,
As was the Bush family who did business with him until the U S declared war on Germany.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2015 05:03 am
@Olivier5,
Pity you didn't say that at the beginning, you'd have saved yourself a lot of trouble.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2015 05:06 am
@RABEL222,
As was Gob1's dear old dad, a passionate supporter of Hitler in the Senate right up to Pearl Harbor.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2015 05:30 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Pity you didn't say that at the beginning, you'd have saved yourself a lot of trouble.

Trouble? What trouble? I kept me head way above water, while you sunk to new lows.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2015 05:40 am
@Olivier5,
No you didn't. You denied reality and resorted to using racist stereotypes.

A very shabby performance all round.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2015 06:02 am
@izzythepush,
LOL.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 25 Jul, 2015 06:11 am
The boycott is starting to bite.

Quote:
In the world of international relations there are plenty of ways of expressing disapproval, from trade sanctions and travel restrictions to arms embargos.

But none of them arguably resonate with the public in quite the same way as a successful consumer boycott.

The template for modern campaigners was set by anti-apartheid activists working to bring down white minority rule in South Africa.

They persuaded the world not to play sport against South African teams - something the South Africans particularly hated - but more importantly they made it a kind of litmus test of decency to refuse to buy fruit or wine from the Cape.

The precise economic effects may have been debatable but the political impact was significant - it sent a signal to the apartheid regime that it was not part of the global family of decent, developed nations.




There seems no doubt that the resulting sense of economic isolation increased the pressure on South Africa to change.

Colonialism charge

In recent years supporters of the Palestinian cause around the world have been trying to bring similar pressure to bear on Israel - and Israel, deeply incensed by any hint of comparison with the apartheid regime, has been searching for the right sort of diplomatic tools to push back.

Michael Deas, campaigns director of the Palestinian Boycott, Divestment and Sanction (BDS) National Committee in London, clearly believes that the tide is running their way.

He argues: "There's a growing fear inside Israel that it's facing international isolation of the kind South Africa faced... it's really interesting that after just 10 years the pressure that we are creating is forcing many ordinary Israelis to question whether Israeli... colonialism is sustainable in the long-term in its current form."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33563191

From the BDS' website.

Quote:
Individual consumers can show their opposition to Israel’s violations by participating in a consumer boycott of Israeli companies, goods and services or of international companies involved in Israeli policies violating Palestinian human rights and international law. A consumer boycott works in two ways: firstly by generating public awareness about Israeli apartheid and occupation as well as international support for it and secondly by applying economic pressure for change. It differs from country to country, but the most common Israeli exports include: – fresh fruit and vegetables such as Jaffa citrus fruits and Israeli Medjoul Dates – Ahava cosmetics – SodaStream drinks machines – Eden Springs bottled water – Golan Heights Wineries and other Israeli wines

There are many international companies that are complicit in Israeli violations of international law. Examples include HP, Caterpillar, Volvo, Hyundai, among many others. Trying to boycott the products of every single company that participates in Israeli apartheid is a daunting task that has a slim change of having a concrete impact. It makes more sense to focus on optimal targets that are being targeted as part of national or international campaigns. Consumer boycotts are most effective when part of a broader campaign against a particular product or aiming to pressure a retailer to stop selling a particular Israeli product.


http://www.bdsmovement.net/activecamps/consumer-boycott<br />
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  3  
Sat 25 Jul, 2015 03:45 pm
Here's a list of products to boycott.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/List-of-Israeli-Products-to-Boycott/343892822376809
ossobuco
 
  2  
Sat 25 Jul, 2015 03:53 pm
@Builder,
I doubt any products from Israel come to Albuquerque. I don't hate Israel anyway, at least not exactly, and as with many boycotts, innocent people who live there would be harmed. I do not like the present government there, and I think that is where interchange adaptations should be curbed, the present government not fed.

 

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