61
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 04:25 pm
@ossobuco,

And that will really change things. Exactly the same was said about the South African apartheid regime boycott.

Who said anything about hating Israel? It's the treatment of the Palestinians that people are protesting against.

Do you love the way the Palestinians are treated?
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 04:54 pm
@izzythepush,
Huh? I am pro Palestinians, generally speaking, no, not pro everything they have ever done, and have rage about many Israeli moves over many years. I think boycotts do hurt the population (and I have been for boycotts in various world situations, and sure, they get people to complain, but I now don't think they are the right fix). Not everyone in Israel, Jewish or not, is all pro Netanyahu et al.

I'd rather the US not feed Israel's government zillions of dollars. That would be a better boycott, but would likely affect our U.S. giant defense industrial complex. Don't get me started.

On the Israeli embargo re relief shipping, that is horrid, and I would have liked to see that interfered with by at least us.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 05:16 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
I'd rather the US not feed Israel's government zillions of dollars.


We all wish lots of things, but the one practical thing you can do is join the boycott. You can't stop the government money or make the Israelis allow more humanitarian aid in, but you can give Jaffa oranges the cold shoulder.
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 05:36 pm
@izzythepush,
I have had an armenian colleague who spent a lot of his early life in Jaffa, now a long time ago. I don't wish the people there, as a population, ill. I don't like starving out people and their orange orchards.

You are welcome to get into it.

InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 06:26 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I doubt any products from Israel come to Albuquerque.


Israeli ceramic tile, among other things, is available here in the a-hole o' Texas, just two-hundred and seventy miles from Albuquerque.

My dad floored his laundry room with a particularly nice set of them a few years ago.
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 06:32 pm
@InfraBlue,
Ah, so..

I'm now trying to remember my favorite Mexican tile company, back in the day when I used to specify tile. I suppose we shouldn't buy from Mexico either, given the powering presence of the cartels into many facets of life there (and, here).
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 07:07 pm
@ossobuco,
WARNING Tangent - my favorite tile has been Malibu tile, made long ago.
I have one tile, which I'm hanging on to, it's on the mantle.
http://www.adamsonhouse.org/tile.html?sa=X&ved=0CBYQ9QEwAGoVChMInaSJ8Mz3xgIVh5qICh0evgqJ

Ok, back to arguing.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jul, 2015 10:09 pm
@ossobuco,

Quote:



And how would that work with the Isralie branch of U S population buying the majority of our legislators?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 03:02 am
@ossobuco,
Like I said, exactly the same arguments were used against the South African regime.

Clearly you do wish the Palestinian people ill because you're not prepared to confront their persecution.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 03:07 am
@izzythepush,
Its a two sided argument . What we need is sanctions to make the Palestinians move out .

Quote:
Clearly you do wish the Palestinian people ill because you're not prepared to confront their persecution.
Clearly you love persecution, rape, genocide, and just hate in general going by your obsession with it . What would you do in a perfect world ? Who would you hate if not Jews ?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 05:12 am
@RABEL222,
You could vote for other legislators, you know, like in a democracy?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 05:26 am
@Builder,
Nesle, Danone, Coca Cola, McDo and Starbucks, huh?

Starbucks, Coca Cola and McDo are American. Nesle is Swiss. Danone is French... What gives?
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 05:41 am
@Olivier5,
What gives is how far you wish to take the boycott. Some just boycott produce grown on illegal settlements in the West Bank. Others boycott all Israeli produce, goods and services. Others still, extend the boycott to all companies who do business with Israel.

There was a similar problem with the Nestle formula milk scandal. Some found it difficult to boycott all Nestle products so the advice was to focus on their best seller, Nescafe.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 06:16 am
Israel exploits Syrian chaos to plan looting of Golan oil

Paul Fallon The Electronic Intifada 21 July 2015

Israeli soldiers patrol near the occupied Syrian town of Majdal al-Shams in the Golan Heights in 2011. Oren Ziv ActiveStills

According to Geoff Rochwarger, CEO of Afek, energy independence is the new Zionism.

The Afek oil and gas exploration company has almost completed its second drilling test in the Golan Heights, a part of Syria which Israel has occupied since 1967 and annexed in violation of international law.

The test is part of a three-year program to see if hydrocarbons in the area could lead to oil or gas for Israel.

Israel is fuel-poor and its domestic energy woes could be eased in the interim if the government progresses on deals in relation to the Tamar and Leviathan gas fields in the Mediterranean Sea.

In addition, Israel is now taking advantage of the chaos in Syria to look for precious resources to extract from the occupied Golan Heights.

Israel relies heavily on imports to meet its energy consumption, and with frequent vicissitudes with its neighbors, its need for energy resources continues to shape the nature of its occupation in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, as well as the Golan Heights.

With the Syrian government in disarray, Israeli authorities gave the go-ahead to Afek, a subsidiary of Genie Oil and Gas, to conduct drilling in 10 wells in the occupied Golan Heights in their search for fossil fuels.

According to Howard Jonas, chairman and CEO of Genie Energy Limited, the parent company of Genie Oil and Gas, the company’s team of experts believes that what lies under the Golan Heights could make Israel energy independent and “contribute to the diversification of the free world’s energy supply away from a crippling dependence on unfriendly sources” (see the Genie Energy annual report for 2014).
“Kill them all”

Genie Oil and Gas has some high profile investors and advisors: Media baron Rupert Murdoch, former US Vice President Dick Cheney, American hedge fund manager Michael Steinhardt and British investment banker Jacob Rothschild are all members of the company’s “Strategic Advisory Board.”

Murdoch stated in 2013 that “Israel is the greatest ally of democracy in a region beset with turmoil and radicalism.” This was an audacious statement given his investment in a company breaking the basic tenets of international law.

The chairman of Genie Israel, Effie Eitam, who lives in the Golan Heights settlement of Nov, is a former military commander and member of the National Religious Party. He once referred to Palestinian citizens of Israel as a “ticking bomb” causing a “cancer” in Israel. He also told The New Yorker in 2004, that Palestinians were “creatures who came out of the depths of darkness” adding that “we will have to kill them all” before backpeddling slightly: “I know it’s not very diplomatic. I don’t mean all the Palestinians, but the ones with evil in their heads.”

Afek claims on its website that Syria’s occupied Golan Heights is part of the “State of Israel.” The company was granted a petroleum exploration license by the northern regional planning and building committee, in direct violation of international law by completely ignoring the Annex to the Fourth Geneva Convention — which applies to the occupied territory.

In February, an Afek subsidiary started drilling its first exploratory well and drilled to a depth of 1,000 meters. The samples extracted are now undergoing analysis and drilling continues. In the event that the company finds oil, it will request the required licenses to begin the production stage.

There are grave breaches of international law as well as environmental concerns at play here. Firstly, the type of oil expected in the area may not be in liquid form and could require fracking — a process that involves injecting large amounts of scarce water and toxic chemicals into the ground in order to force the hydrocarbons to the surface.

Whether it is conventional oil or shale oil, fracking or drilling could lead to oil seepage into the underground water table, polluting Lake Tiberias — the biblical Sea of Galilee — potentially rendering local water supplies undrinkable and destroying the ecosystem for generations to come.
Looting Syria’s resources

The Golan plateau was occupied by Israel during the 1967 War. UN Security Council resolution 242 and several other resolutions since have called for Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territory and condemned Israel’s actions there.

These have included: annexation and imposition of Israeli law in 1981, an action the UN Security Council declared “null and void.” Israel has also transfered its own population into the area for the purpose of colonization and the use of the territory’s resources for its own economic interests.

The Golan’s fertile land and water resources have been a strategic interest for Israel and now its energy potential may bring huge financial rewards.

Despite international criticism, Israel’s inherently discriminatory and exploitative policies inside the Golan continue without sanction. Israeli ministers have voiced their desire to capitalize on the destabilization of Syria as an excuse to cement Israel’s illegal hold on the territory.

Whilst Israel continues to exploit the natural resources of the territories it occupies, the international community continues to do nothing to enforce its decisions as the occupation of the Golan verges on reaching the 50-year milestone.

The Syrian government had planned to build a pipeline across the Middle East into Lebanon and the Mediterranean for the European markets. It had signed agreements with Iran and Iraq towards this end.

With Syrian oil reserves in decline and the country in chaos, the government has no capacity to challenge the current Israeli exploitation of the country’s Golan resources.

It seems likely therefore that Israel will have a free hand to loot Syrian oil from the Golan, backed by the West.

Paul Fallon is a legal researcher and writer with Al-Marsad, a human rights group in the occupied Golan Heights.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 06:23 am
World Jewry feels increasingly endangered, embarrassed by Israel, study finds

Ali Abunimah 25 July 2015

Jews around the world, especially younger ones, feel increasingly embarrassed and endangered by Israel and its actions, especially after last summer’s massacre in Gaza.

This is a key conclusion from a new report by the Jewish People Policy Institute (JPPI), a think tank supported by Israel lobby groups that works with the Israeli government to bolster Jewish support for Israel and Zionism.

The study identifies a “sense of crisis” in many Jewish communities “regarding their relationships with Israel.”

The report, “Jewish Values and Israel’s Use of Force in Armed Conflict: Perspectives from World Jewry,” is based on in-depth discussion groups and surveys in Jewish communities from Australia to South Africa, in Europe and in North and South America.

JPPI is co-chaired by Israel lobby stalwart and former US “peace process” diplomat Dennis Ross and Stuart Eizenstat, a longtime US government official who now serves as the State Department’s “Special Adviser to the Secretary on Holocaust Issues.”
Losing faith

The report asserts that most Jews are still concerned about Israel and care about its future. But it confirms key trends that will be particularly troubling to Israel and its lobby groups around the world.

For one thing, it is becoming harder for Israel to convince Jews that its regular spasms of violence against Palestinians and others are justified.

“Many Jews’ confidence in Israel’s desire for peace with its Palestinian neighbors has eroded, and this erosion also affects their belief in the necessity of using force,” the report states.

Many Jews are more likely to view Israel as responsible for this violence – contrary to Israel’s own claims that it is merely engaging in “self-defense.”

The discussions that fed into the report “called attention to a growing difficulty that many Jews have understanding Israel’s long-term policy – which they see as contributing to, if not actually creating, the need to engage in repeated violent confrontations with its neighbors.”

They also revealed a “rising tendency among Diaspora Jews to regard their ties to Israel as a disruptive factor in their personal and communal lives.”

Among the report’s recommendations is more “effective hasbara (public relations) vis-a-vis the Jewish communities” in an effort to convince them that Israel wants “peace.”

It is notable that this report was compiled by institutions with strong pro-Israel commitments, meaning that non-Zionist and anti-Zionist Jewish perspectives were likely underrepresented in the research. Not mentioned in the report, for instance, is the fact that many young Jews are active in the Palestinian-led boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement. Yet even so the report found considerable and growing disquiet over Israel.
Jews versus Israel

While both Zionist and anti-Semitic propagandists typically present the interests of Israel, on the one hand, and Jewish communities around the world, on the other, as being identical, the reality is that they are often directly at odds.

Last summer’s Israeli attack on Gaza which killed more than 2,200 Palestinians highlighted these contradictions for many participants in the JPPI study.

“Many – most – Jews still feel close to Israel, are concerned about Israel, want the best for it and to see it succeed,” the report states. “One cannot, however, ignore the many voices testifying to a growing difficulty in accepting the price this closeness entails.”

“Israel’s wars have an immediate and, usually, a negative effect on Diaspora Jewry,” concludes the summary of one of the Brazil discussions.

“Many Jews around the world feel that their lives are directly affected by Israel’s actions,” the report states. “Some feel physically threatened in the wake of Israeli actions, but even those who do not may still feel that Israel’s actions affect them on many levels, from Jewish intra-communal relations to their interaction with the non-Jewish world.”

Particularly troubling has been the Israeli response to attacks that targeted and killed Jews in France, most recently the killings at a kosher supermarket in Paris in January.

“[Israeli Prime Minister] Benjamin Netanyahu’s invitation to French Jews to immigrate to Israel put the French Jews in an embarrassing situation,” a study participant in France observed. “They had to explain to their fellow French citizens that they are not ‘Israelis living [in France] on borrowed time.’”
Reluctant ambassadors

Jews also increasingly resent “the role of Israel ‘ambassadors’ they are forced to play, whether they want to or not.”

A discussion seminar in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, noted that “we are all held accountable for Israel’s actions … [There is] no separation between Zionism and Judaism.”

“Whether I want to or not – I become an ambassador of Israel,” said one participant in St. Louis, Missouri.

The self-declared “Jewish state’s” horrifying violence and refusal to seek peace is also making some want to appear less Jewish and, in the words of the report, “lower their Jewish profile.”

Israel is also seen as increasingly divisive even among Jews. “Israel, which seeks to be a unifying force for World Jewry, has become, over the years, a source of tension,” the report states.

Israel’s extreme right-wing policies in other areas also run against the progressive politics many Jews profess. Many, the report states, are “dissatisfied with ‘civil rights’ issues, especially those related to minorities” including Palestinian citizens of Israel, foreign workers and the Ethiopian Jewish community.
Boosting propaganda

The JPPI report makes several recommendations aimed at boosting Israel’s propaganda efforts among Jews, particularly with respect to the “image” of the Israeli army.

“The IDF’s image as a moral army is a vital asset to Israel vis-à-vis the Jewish community, one that should be cultivated and preserved,” the report states. “It is crucial to refrain from making statements or conveying messages that undermine this image.”

The report calls for better “preparation” by Israeli army officers who engage in propaganda efforts in Jewish communities to “specifically address the Jewish viewpoint, rather than being confined to general hasbara messages.”

Nowhere does the report recommend that the Israeli army actually end its occupation and well-documented criminal violence against Palestinians. The report does not call for Israeli leaders or soldiers to be held accountable for the war crimes in Gaza and the West Bank evidence of which is amply documented in the recently published independent UN inquiry.
Youth checking out

A key point in the JPPI study is that all the trends that the authors find alarming are even more pronounced among Jews aged under 30.

“The opinion that Israel has a problem with the younger generation of Diaspora Jews was pervasive,” the report states.

It notes, for instance, anxiety about “declining enrollment in the Taglit-Birthright and Masa Israel programs, and concerns that this could be attributed to the Gaza war.”

These are programs, funded by the Israeli government and pro-Israel foundations, that bring Jewish youths on free trips to Israel in an effort to inculcate or strengthen Zionist commitments.

Concern about the attitudes of the young is driven by one “obvious” reason, the report states: “This is the generation whose attitude (and the attitude of the Jewish leadership that will come from it) will define the status of Israel-Diaspora relations in the future.”

If the trends noted in the JPPI report continue – and there’s no reason to think they won’t – then the alienation of Jews around the world from Israel is only certain to grow.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 06:39 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Palestine is a laboratory for weapons research. It's the pay off for buying so many American weapons (with American money.) Periodically they provoke confrontation, shooting unarmed protestors, stone throwing youths, using drone strikes on Palestinian leaders, with bucket loads of collateral damage, all so they can get Hamas to fire a rocket. Then they have the green light to use all their new military hardware and send the research back to the manufacturers.

It's not so much a war, or a conflict, but R&D. (And for a lot of them R&R as well.)
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 07:05 am
@izzythepush,
All the Hamas rockets - 1000's of them - have managed very little property damage and one man dead (by heart attack).

Israeli missile response? Hundreds dead and maimed and millions in damages.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 08:01 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Of course, if they were any good Israel wouldn't provoke Israel into firing them. That's one of the reasons they're so anti any deal with Iran. If Iran arms Hezbollah with decent military hardware Israel will find any future incursions a lot harder.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 09:29 am
@RABEL222,
That, as I have said before, is a huge problem.

As I figure you know, It involves the Citizens United factor, and, as ever, ordinary lobbying, and the country's voters.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 Jul, 2015 09:31 am
@izzythepush,
If you think that, you are way off base.
 

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