Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

If so many Americans rejoice when Arabs get bombed, why can't many Arabs rejoice when Americans get bombed?

Not likely that many Americans rejoiced Arab deaths before the Arabs started murdering us.

Olivier5 wrote:

If Israel can oppose a Palestinian state, why can't Hamas oppose a Jewish state?

Israel repeatedly and endlessly offered the Palestinians a state based on 1967 borders. It isn't Israel's fault that Palestinians are evil and refuse to make peace.

0 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Oralloy, there is no disputing that Jews and non-Jews got along relatively peacefully in that area for thousands of years before the conception and creation of the state of Israel.

Actually I dispute it. But it's less important than my main point.

Frank Apisa wrote:

From that point on...the problems began.

In other words, the problems began when the legitimate owners claimed land that Muslims wanted to steal.

Frank Apisa wrote:

The problem IS primarily the result of the state of Israel being set up there...whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

I don't blame the legitimate owners for claiming their own property.

I blame the Muslims for being land thieves.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Builder wrote:
Dozens of Holocaust survivors, together with hundreds of descendants of Holocaust survivors and victims, have accused Israel of “genocide” for the deaths of more than 2,000 Palestinians in Gaza since the conflict erupted in July.
source

Self-Hating Jews are pretty goofy.

I really points at your character to call those, who at least survived the concentraten camps but still suffered more than can be imagined, to call those, who constantly help younger generations not to forget the Holocaust, to call those "Self-Hating Jews" and "pretty goofy".

3 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Ronald Reagan was a failure as a president...and should be ranked among the worst we've had.

He was a two-term president with massive election victories. Seems pretty successful to me.

He was successful as a politician...and a terrible failure as a president.

He was a nice guy with a great grin...and he sucked at the job.

Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Cruz will not get the nomination. Even the crazies on the right have more sense than that.

Again, reminds me of what was once said about Reagan.

Okay...I can understand that you are reminded of that.

We'll see how Cruz ranks after the primaries...and one of us will be shown to be correct.

I will acknowledge, however, that he is doing fairly well in the (very early) polling. The ONLY potential candidates with higher polling numbers right now are:

Jeb Bush, Chris Christie, Lindsay Graham, Rick Perry, Donald Trump, Scott Walker, Bob Ehrlich, Jim Gilmore, Mike Huckabee, Bobby Jindal, John Kasich, Paul Rand, Mike Pence, Marco Rubio, and Rick Santorum

Quote:

I think Jeb has the nomination sewn up, but who knows.

My money would be on Jeb getting the nod also, Oralloy. We do agree there.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Oralloy, there is no disputing that Jews and non-Jews got along relatively peacefully in that area for thousands of years before the conception and creation of the state of Israel.

Actually I dispute it. But it's less important than my main point.

I have no idea why you would consider it to be less important than your "main point"...but I consider it to be the paramount consideration in determining the cause of the problem.

You say you "dispute" it.

So...dispute it.

What do you have to dispute it?

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I really points at your character to call those, who at least survived the concentraten camps but still suffered more than can be imagined, to call those, who constantly help younger generations not to forget the Holocaust, to call those "Self-Hating Jews" and "pretty goofy".

These Holocaust survivors are not merely trying to help younger generations remember the Holocaust.

They are falsely accusing other Jews of committing a Holocaust.

They are engaging in anti-Semitism (horrible false accusations against Jews), which is what drove the hatred behind the Holocaust that they suffered.

But yes. That I stand resolute against their outrageous comments does indeed speak to my character.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

I have no idea why you would consider it to be less important than your "main point"...but I consider it to be the paramount consideration in determining the cause of the problem.

For me the paramount consideration is who the rightful owners are.

Frank Apisa wrote:

You say you "dispute" it.
So...dispute it.
What do you have to dispute it?

I don't think the Muslims treated the Jews very well at all. Under Islamic rule, Jews were treated as third-class citizens at best.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Olivier5 wrote:

I agree. In fact, seems to me Israel has more power over the US political system than the American people.

The American people openly support Israel.

Quote:

This study reveals that U.S. military forces were directly responsible for about 10 to 15 million deaths during the Korean and Vietnam Wars and the two Iraq Wars. The Korean War also includes Chinese deaths while the Vietnam War also includes fatalities in Cambodia and Laos.

The American public probably is not aware of these numbers and knows even less about the proxy wars for which the United States is also responsible. In the latter wars there were between nine and 14 million deaths in Afghanistan, Angola, Democratic Republic of the Congo, East Timor, Guatemala, Indonesia, Pakistan and Sudan.

But the victims are not just from big nations or one part of the world. The remaining deaths were in smaller ones which constitute over half the total number of nations. Virtually all parts of the world have been the target of U.S. intervention.

The overall conclusion reached is that the United States most likely has been responsible since WWII for the deaths of between 20 and 30 million people in wars and conflicts scattered over the world.

Story here...

3 Replies

@Builder,

Brainwashed as they are.

0 Replies

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I have no idea why you would consider it to be less important than your "main point"...but I consider it to be the paramount consideration in determining the cause of the problem.

For me the paramount consideration is who the rightful owners are.

Yes...and I accept that "for you" the paramount consideration is who the rightful owners are. But of course, "who the rightful owners are" is not an easy thing to determine...and is currently a huge bone of contention between many disparate parties. My concern is not whether or not you are of that opinion, Oralloy...but how you reasonably arrive at it.

Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
You say you "dispute" it.
So...dispute it.
What do you have to dispute it?

I don't think the Muslims treated the Jews very well at all. Under Islamic rule, Jews were treated as third-class citizens at best.

My comment was that prior to the conception and creation of the state of Israel...the Jews and non-Jews lived in relative peace in that area.

They did.

Whether or not the Jews were treated as "third-class citizens at best" whatever that is supposed to mean) is incidental. The area WAS relatively peaceful between the parties.

You are not "disputing" that...you are simply introducing a red herring...a gratuitous red herring, at that.

Fact is, the two occasions where Jews were treated relatively kindly by non-Jew neighbors both occurred with Muslims being the neighbors. One was the situation with Jews and Muslims in that area living in relative peace and fraternity for thousands of years...and the other being in Muslim occupied southern Spain for almost a thousand years.

So...actually "dispute" away...if you have any ammunition in that direction.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

These Holocaust survivors are not merely trying to help younger generations remember the Holocaust.

They are falsely accusing other Jews of committing a Holocaust.

They are engaging in anti-Semitism (horrible false accusations against Jews), which is what drove the hatred behind the Holocaust that they suffered.

With today's technology and smart phones giving you facts from every side of an aspect, new generations of the Jewish population are finding out that their "holocaust" (gas chambers, burning people alive, and similar) wasn't true.

On the other hand, and again, Israel WON the war(s) to establish itself as a sovereign nation capable to do in their land whatever they want to do with it.

Forget the thousands of years of history, because if the native people of Hawaii start to claim their islands in base of thousands of years of history, then the US will be in trouble.

What it rules is today's government in a country, and Israel is a country with all the rights to preserve the best the integrity of the citizens.

The ones who don't want to recognize that they are living in the State of Israel are free to become part of it.

You can't please everybody, there are winners and losers, and in this case, Palestinians are the losers.

2 Replies

@Olivier5,

Damn right! Who wouldn't react like that when the country that sponsored their persecution got a taste of what that persecution was like?

Ionus's paranoid nonsense is as ridiculous as saying that once there's a united Ireland the Irish will redouble their campaign against Britain. In reality once Sinn Fein joined the power sharing executive terrorist offences nosedived, and those still engaged in terrorism were marginalised.

There's no reason whatsoever to think anything different will happen once Palestine gets its own state, free from daily persecution and humiliation. Once an oppressed people experience peace and prosperity they want to keep hold of it. While they're being oppressed they develop a siege mentality because they've got nothing to lose.

Ionus is just trying to justify his bigotry. It's not justified, bigotry never is.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

If so many Americans rejoice when Arabs get bombed, why can't many Arabs rejoice when Americans get bombed?

If Israel can oppose a Palestinian state, why can't Hamas oppose a Jewish state?

The propaganda sponsored by Israel against the Arabs is so pervasive that Americans who do not follow ME events closely will only see that the Arabs want to run Israel into the sea....

"Israel's seizure of Palestinian funds a 'war crime' says rights group. A human rights group in Ramallah has dubbed Israel's seizure of nearly $400m of funds belonging to Palestinians - for acceding to the International Criminal Court - a "war crime" prosecutable by the Geneva-based tribunal.

"A new report by al-Haq, the West Bank affiliate of the International Commission of Jurists in Geneva, outlined the devastating effects of Israel's withholding of taxes it collects on behalf of the Palestinians, calling the seizure "unlawful" and a form of "collective punishment".
Between January and March, Israel seized millions of dollars of Palestinian taxes in response to Palestine's accession to the ICC's Rome Statute in late December 2014.

"Released on the day Palestine officially becomes an ICC member, the report, titled "The Unlawful Seizure of Palestinian Taxes: Israel's Collective Punishment of a People", said the taxes paid by Palestinian individuals and businesses over three consecutive months amount to nearly three-quarters of the Palestinian Authority's revenue for that period."
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2015/04/israel-seizure-palestinian-funds-war-crime-150401091029697.html
_____

Remember reading when President Carter appointed the first African American to be Ambassador to the UN, Andrew Young. Young met with Arafat secretly. Israel got wind of it and DEMANDED Andrew be fired for speaking with Israel's enemy. Carter had to let Young go. A little later, an emboldened Jimmy Carter spoke to the American people saying "If we don't talk with our enemies how will we ever know what the problem is?" The ice was broken and the US began talks with Arafat, and later so did Israel who hated every minute of it.

If Americans were to really try and understand Israel and the middle east many will see that Israel's enemies view America as their enemy and the US will for the foreseeable future be a target while Israel continues to steal Palestinian land and corrupt our congress.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Quote:

I really points at your character to call those, who at least survived the concentration camps but still suffered more than can be imagined, to call those, who constantly help younger generations not to forget the Holocaust, to call those "Self-Hating Jews" and "pretty goofy".

"Character?" What character? Don't you mean buffoon?

3 Replies

@korkamann,

No, you're being unfair to buffoons, who in their own way can be quite comical and charming. Oralboy is a thoroughly nasty piece of work, admittedly he's of very low intelligence, but he more that makes up for that with impotent malice.

0 Replies

@korkamann,

I could have called this sociopathic personality as having a personality disorder etc but I preferred a colloquialism.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

Georgebob loves to boast about his Nazi sympathising father, and how Gob1 himself had so much fun spraying Vietnamese kindergartens with napalm. Such filth has not place advising on truth, it doesn't know the meaning of the word.

It appears I touched one of izzy's hot buttons. I suspect it was the riff about the roles of Great Britain and France during WWI in seizing and colonizing the Middle east, and making promises regarding Palestine that they either could not keep, or had no intention of keeping when they made them, thereby creating the region-wide instability that persists today. He doen't like to encounter thus fact, but it is fact nonetheless.

My father was no Nazi sympathiser. He was an Irish immigrant who had little sympathy for the excesses of British misrule in his homeland. Those views were fairly widespread in this country at one time.

Napalm was rarely used after the Korean war. We had much better munitions by the 1960s including cluster bombs and Fuel/Air explosives.

For one who is often very judgmental of others, izzy shows himself to be hypersensitive when the light is shown on him.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

He[Ronald Reagan] was successful as a politician...and a terrible failure as a president.

Reagan was 69 when he became president. Unbeknownst to the public, he was suffering from the early onset of Alzheimers, which is a slow progressive disease. During his first term, Reagan was the target of an attempted assassination and was shot in one lung. It took some time for him to recuperate. Others, including his wife who was an Astrologist freak, took over the president's duties.

During the second term, Reagan had colon surgery and this took some time to heal from the operation and his chief of staff, Poindexter, said "the buck stops at his desk." It was during this time that Oliver North started transferring money to the Contras in Central America.
"Congress prohibited contra aid for the purpose of overthrowing the Sandinista Government in fiscal year 1983." In order to raise money for the Contras Oliver North and some others sold drugs to the inner city.

Eventually, Reagan acknowledged some in his administration did a quid pro quo with the Iranians. Reagan, before his election, made a deal with the Iranians to continue holding the 52 American hostages until after he had won the election. The Iranians were ready to release the 52 Embassy employees held hostage to President Jimmy Carter. Reagan knew of this and said he would swap military arms to Iran in exchange for releasing the hostages right after his first inauguration. Israel acted as the go-between and carried the arms to Iran as promised by the Reagan administration. This was called the "October Surprise."

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Technically speaking, Napalm-B isn't Napalm, so you're correct.

2 Replies

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Even the crazies on the right have more sense than that.

Oh Lordy I hope not! Let's us hope he picks Palen for his Vice President. I'll be in hog heaven.

0 Replies

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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