63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Fri 25 Jul, 2014 05:52 pm
@Germlat,
Germlat wrote:

I'm confused.. My aunt is Jewish and married to an Arab Palestinian who is my favorite uncle. I don' t wan't for anyone to take advantage of anyone. They're both lovely. I want all my cousins to be happy and live....words of my niece....from the mouth of babes....



Why direct such a post to me? Your family relationships are none of my business. Live a long and healthy life.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Fri 25 Jul, 2014 05:58 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Not we don't, we see a few far right extremists, that's all.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  2  
Fri 25 Jul, 2014 05:58 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

It's not; the US is the only country where the CEO's earn 300 times the average pay of their company. The US is the only country where wealth has shifted to the top 20% who now own 80% of the assets.

You're not keeping an eye on your own economic status; believe it or not, you've been losing buying power for the last 3 - 4 decades now - and that's if you consider yourself middle class.


Don't tell me to be resentful of wealthy CEO's. I find it satisfying that wealthy CEO's irritate many of the masses that deserve what they have, or don't have.

I subscribe to a social class system that many do not subscribe to. While I am just a lower class person, I know my place, and do not resent the upper classes for their wealth. I do not resent your annual vacations. I value my lack of envy and jealousy. Your time in the military might not have taught you that everyone cannot be equal, like officers and enlisted.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  -1  
Fri 25 Jul, 2014 06:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

No need; we "see" the self-perceptions of Jews regularly here on a2k. Iranians are only but a sub-note to the real news coming from Israel on a daily basis.




Please stop your repartee. I really find you annoying, in your need to always have a retort. Just shut that smiling orifice. Please.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jul, 2014 06:10 pm
@Foofie,
That's easily accomplished; put me on IGNORE or scroll past my posts.
0 Replies
 
buttflake
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jul, 2014 09:16 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
As you were saying about Islam and Muslims?


First the majority of the US is white. The numbers you show prove that. Why don't you look at the percentage from total population of those groups. Then you will have something.

And Islam is exactly what I say it is. If you wish to believe Muslims are not all learning from the same books I don't care. I have told you what devout Muslims believe and will happily, or not, kill for. And, as it happens everyday, die for.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jul, 2014 09:25 pm
@buttflake,
True, but your claim was about Muslims and their crimes. Relatively speaking, most of the countries with Muslims are peaceful ones, and crime doesn't even come close to the US ratio.

Quote:
Yes that is true. Take Saudi Arabia for example. Saudi Arabia practices Shariah Law. In Shariah Law a rapist, killer, homosexual, kidnapper, drug smuggler gets their head chopped off in public. Adulterers are stoned to death. Thieves get their hand or foot chopped off on the third offense. Women and men who commit fornication are whipped 100 times in public since virginity is important for both men and women until marriage in Islam. This deters crime because of the severe penalties for certain crimes and scares the entire citizens of the country making it safe to live in. You don't need to worry about being killed for your money or for just stepping outside your door. You can carry $200 or more in your pocket and can go outside without having to worry about someone robbing you for your cash. Now look at the USA. If you rape someone then you go to jail for 25 years which means you'll be out in 15 for good behavior and then that person will continue to rape other women until he dies. Or the woman might be afraid to testify against her rapist because she is afraid that when he gets out he'll kill her. You can be shot for just stepping outside your house or over $1.00 in the USA! How does this make the USA safe? The USA has the highest crime rate in the world. If the USA implemented Shariah Law the USA would be a lot safer. The USA is concerned about human rights in other countries but they don't bother to protect their own citizens from crime. Also about the high birth rate in Muslim countries. In Islam family is very important and so Muslims are encouraged to have large numbers of children. Not only to spread Islam faster but the main reason is if the husband dies the eldest son can get a job and provide for his widowed mother and orphaned siblings. Whereas in the USA most couples only have 1-2 children and then quit having kids. When the couple dies the children are split up and thrown in foster care or a realative takes only one child in and not the other. If the father died then the widowed wife would have to work the rest of her life to take care of her children and she would be miserable because she would never see her children and no man in the USA wants to marry a woman who has kids.
buttflake
 
  1  
Fri 25 Jul, 2014 09:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
True, but your claim was about Muslims and their crimes


Seems like you should convert. And Muslims crimes in Europe is out of control. The only reason the crime rates are hidden is not to cause more crime because that would show Muslims in a bad light. That is intimidation. Not talking about violence because more is expected. Emasculation perfected.

In short Islam can have Islam. But you cannot have freedom with Islam.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  3  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 01:28 am
@oralloy,

I notice this with you, and some others, that when you lose the thrust of an argument, you revert to personal vituperation. There's a certain immorality in that, as well as lack of intellectual rigour.
vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 04:40 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Relatively speaking, most of the countries with Muslims are peaceful ones, and crime doesn't even come close to the US ratio.
Ummm....this may be true...while being completely wrong...the statement is a tangled mess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2014

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Indonesia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_organizations<br />

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/christianattacks.htm
That's from a 2 minute search.

oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 07:52 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
I notice this with you, and some others, that when you lose the thrust of an argument, you revert to personal vituperation.

Liar.


McTag wrote:
There's a certain immorality in that,

This from a thug who revels in brutal atrocities against innocent people.


McTag wrote:
as well as lack of intellectual rigour.

Well it's a good thing you were lying about me then.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 08:30 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

For all the rhetoric coming from the Israeli side that they don't target civilians, their actions speak louder than their words.


The numbers speak for themselves. 73% of the dead Palestinians are civilians, 94% of the dead Israelis are soldiers. For all of Israel's spin and mendacity, it's clear which side is targeting civilians.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 09:15 am
@vikorr,
Look at the numbers. Those countries may have higher crime rates, but that's a small ratio of Muslims in the world.

Did you look at the crimes committed in the US? Most are perpetrated by whites.

It's ratio that counts to the total. Anyone can find examples of high crime rates in 'pockets' that can show where minorities lives can have higher crime rates, but look at the totals.

In other words, find the total crimes committed by Muslims vs total Muslims in the world. Their ratio is very small - compared to the crimes committed by whites in the US. Get it?
buttflake
 
  1  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 11:51 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
The numbers speak for themselves. 73% of the dead Palestinians are civilians, 94% of the dead Israelis are soldiers. For all of Israel's spin and mendacity, it's clear which side is targeting civilians.


First, how do you tell the difference between a Palestinian civilian and terrorist. We know Hamas trains children and recruits women for suicide bombings. Second their munitions are kept in hospitals, shelters, and schools.

Israelis wear uniforms.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 12:30 pm
@buttflake,
buttflake wrote:
Israelis wear uniforms.
Really? I'd thought only those in the forces, police etc.
(Even Israeli media make differences here: "Five Palestinians were shot to death in the West Bank on Friday in incidents by the IDF and Israeli civilians." Jerusalem Post, 25/07/2014)
buttflake
 
  1  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 12:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Really? I'd thought only those in the forces, police etc.


If citizens are involved in some activities doesn't change that fact. I am surprised people have such a problem with self defense. Whether it is one person or a nation.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 02:35 pm
An interesting opinion, IMHO, by Dahlia Scheindlin (a public opinion researcher and consultant, former adjunct lecturer at the Department of Politics and Government at Ben Gurion University and currently teaching adjunct at Tel Aviv University’s Political Science Department. She lives in Tel Aviv) in tomorrow's Observer:
Israel's argument for war against Palestine ignores the context
Quote:
For Israel, this is a war against Hamas that started a few weeks ago. Outsiders increasingly see it as war against Gaza for years, and against Palestinians for decades

Protective Edge, the war between Israel and Hamas, has received some legitimacy from key Israeli allies; both the US and Europe have observed Israel's right to defend itself against rockets and terror infiltration through tunnels. But from the start, the life span of that support was bound to be short. As a brief ceasefire was reached on Saturday, it may already be waning.

The reason can be summed up as follows: the immediate casus belli – Hamas aggression – appears to justify Israel's actions. But on closer inspection, threats against civilians fade compared to actual carnage among civilians – Palestinians. Zooming out, the long-term context of the conflict is increasingly indefensible. Yet Israel's argument for the war depends on immediate justifications and ignores the context. To compensate, Israel is fixated on narrative, in the deep conviction that a campaign of slogans and images, known as "hasbara", will work.
[...]
For Israel, this is a war against Hamas that started a few weeks ago. Outsiders increasingly see it as war against Gaza for years, and against Palestinians for decades. In that environment, it doesn't matter who fired at the UN school.

People were killed because of a war, because of the big picture, which doesn't favour Israel. Not wishing to address the big picture, Israel has embraced hasbara to explain its pinpointed strikes. The strategy fails on multiple levels.

In general, Israeli hasbara observes only those short-term arguments for the war. But it drills down even further, to explain tactics and incidents. The UN school, like other cases before it, could be reduced to a whodunnit in the grimmest of games: Who fired the shot? Did Palestinians doctor the photos? Evidence-doubting is becoming a favourite game.

But as the war heats up, the global media pay closer attention to the whole situation. The world is able to pan out to see the whole picture, while Israel is zeroing in.

Another problem is that hasbara serves up pith instead of policy. From its Twitter account, the IDF offers these formulations: "Hamas does not exist for the people of Gaza; it abuses its people in order to exist."

"Israel uses its weapons to protect civilians; Hamas uses its civilians to protect weapons."

The slogans are augmented by flashy graphics that could grace a magazine but are no substitute for solutions. Netanyahu may know that the cartoon bomb he flashed in his 2012 United Nations speech about the Iranian nuclear threat yielded jokes. This time, no one is laughing.

Worse still, the scent of hasbara taints even clearly legitimate actions. Thus: "IDF soldiers were rushed by a female suicide bomber in Gaza. They were able to neutralise the threat," reads another message. Surely everyone can agree on the need to kill a suicide bomber before she strikes, if necessary. But the euphemistic self-justifications that are so overused in far less clear situations can cause momentary doubt even here.

By ignoring and perpetuating the long-term conflict, obsessively reading only the very, very short term, and by dressing up its actions in cheap linguistic clothes, Israel's communications may backfire among precisely those who need to be convinced.

There are two paths to understanding this conflict – Israel's and those seen by the outside world. Increasingly, they do not cross.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 02:46 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Killing so many children for their fight against Hamas can't be excused. Why so many are silent against this massacre is the mystery.

Holocaust any one?
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 03:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

Killing so many children for their fight against Hamas can't be excused. Why so many are silent against this massacre is the mystery.


Israel has Kerry and Obama afraid to do anything because of domestic politics. There is outrage on campuses across the nation but the papers will not cover such. Europe is watching and Israel isn't looking too pretty nor will the Zionist nation escape without paying a huge price.

By murdering so many Palestinians Israel is hoping many survivors in Gaza will flee, as well as some in the West Bank, the same way they fled their homes in the 1967 war........ the Zionist nation is in a hurry to continue their illegal settlement building. They know the US had better not even look cross-eyed at them and so as long as the US hands are tied, the killings has been well worth it at least this is the perception many are left with regarding the Demon Netanyahu.

Really, I'm so ashamed the silent leaders in the US are so cowed by Israel they dare not do what is right in the name of humanity.

vikorr
 
  1  
Sat 26 Jul, 2014 04:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Look at the numbers. Those countries may have higher crime rates, but that's a small ratio of Muslims in the world.

Did you look at the crimes committed in the US? Most are perpetrated by whites.
CI, if you go back and look at what I said - that it may be true while being completely wrong, and that your statement was a tangled mess, it's because you included the word 'peaceful' in it...then compared crime rates.

Crimes effect on peace varies by degree to the crime committed, and the number of crimes committed. A single bombing will have a severely greater effect on the 'peace' of a country, than a murder will (unless the murder is a President or such). Multiple bombings, as many countries experience, even more so.

In relation to the red - you were talking about the peacefulness of islamic countries, not the ratio of muslims committing bombings/etc.

The ratio of Islamic Countries experiencing extreme disturbance to their peace is quite profound. The ratio of countries with large percentages of muslims experiencing distrubance to it's peace is also profound.
....................

If you want to just compare crime rates, it may be a different story.
....................
As an aside on crime reporting rates:
- Countries were people have faith in the independence of their justice system are more likely to report crimes.
- women will be much more likely to report crime in Western countries than in Islamic countries.
0 Replies
 
 

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