Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

@Advocate,

Quote:

Interestingly, as a Christian, you probably would not last a week in the Pal territories.

I am a nonbeliever in gods....a freethinker..... so your hypothetical suggestion above will not even be entertained...at least by me. Yet, let me reiterate once again, along with Frank Apisa's enduring words....."Going back centuries, the Pales, Jews and Christians all lived comparatively easy among each other, with each sect respecting the other's space." It is only when the Zionist nation, created in 1948, desired a goal of owning the whole shebang of Palestine, that problems began and has only gotten worse with the US giving Israel the military edge over all she surveys and today, the Zionist nation is the region's Superpower, with its nuclear facility. Only Pakistan and India in South Asia, have nuclear facilities.

Quote:

Tell us again about all the Muslims who lived in the area 2,000 years ago. This typifies your tendency to lie when it is to denigrate Israelis.

Advocate, you are so impoverished when it comes to creativity that you keep on repeating the same ole same ole. I made a typical mistake referring to "Muslims living in Palestine 2000 years" as opposed to the indigenous people of the region, native Palestinians. You have never forgotten and are beginning to resemble more and more the likes of Oralloy's repetitiveness. You really should try to be more imaginative, or am I asking too much?!? The Muslims of today are the progeny of the Palestinians living two thousand years ago and further back.

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@Moment-in-Time,

You are still an ethnic Christian, and you would be persecuted, if not murdered, along with the religious Christians. Of course, you know that, but would never admit it.

The Jews were never treated decently by the Arabs. The former were periodically slaughtered, and were always of a "lower" class. For inst ance, they were not allowed to own land. You lie when you say that the Zionists were trying to take over all of Palestine. They were always, and still are, willing to share the area. But the Pals still don't recognize the right of Israel to exist. How do you negotiate with such a people?

I bring up your stupid and false statement because it shows your lack of regard for the truth in making your points. You made up the statement to show that Muslims had a strong presence even 2,000 years ago, not realizing the statement's stupidity.

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

You are still an ethnic Christian, ..

Ethnic religion, I thought, was a term used for "tribal religion". But there are some national churches with "ethnic flavours", though.

Besides that, Advocate, you seem to have missed a lot of news regarding Israel, Palestine and the occupied countries. But instead, you're good in making them up!

Israel's Christians are latest targets in recent spate of 'price tag' attacks ... ... ...

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

The Jews were never treated decently by the Arabs. The former were periodically slaughtered, and were always of a "lower" class. For inst ance, they were not allowed to own land. You lie when you say that the Zionists were trying to take over all of Palestine. They were always, and still are, willing to share the area.

Compared with the rest of the world...the Jews and non-Jews of that area got along relatively peacefully. Yes, there were rivalries...and, yes, factions existed. But compared with the rest of the world...they DID JUST FINE TOGETHER...

...until the state of Israel came into existence.

The state of Israel...is the fly in the ointment...not the Palestinians.

There is no disputing that, Advocate.

Quote:

But the Pals still don't recognize the right of Israel to exist. How do you negotiate with such a people?

Why should they recognize the right of Israel to exist? What "greater authority" requires that of them?

Many of them do NOT WANT ISRAEL THERE...and they have a right to that opinion.

The area was relatively peaceful...with everyone getting along reasonably UNTIL the state of Israel came into existence. Every thinking person SHOULD want the state of Israel to cease to exist in that area. It should never have come into being in that area.

"How do you negotiate with them?"

Actually negotiate...rather than just pretending to negotiate.

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@Advocate,

Quote:

You are still an ethnic Christian, and you would be persecuted, if not murdered, along with the religious Christians. Of course, you know that, but would never admit it.

An ethnic Christian?! Me?! I don't think so. In ancient times religion was one characterizing factor of ethnicity; however with the rise of various religions, ethnic religions came to be marginalized because people often married into different ethnic/racial groups, many times converting. "The notion of gentiles ("nations") in Judaism reflect this state of affairs, the implicit assumption that each nation will have its own religion. Historical examples include Germanic polytheism, Celtic polytheism, Slavic polytheism and pre-Hellenistic Greek religion."

[The Jews were never treated decently by the Arabs.[/quote]

That is a fallacy of gross distortion. Human beings being human beings there will always be some kind of friction...hell, I fight/disagree with my parents all the time and they are in their 70s..... even among neighbors, but to compare the mistreatment to what happened to Jews after they left the Levant is another story! There are Jews in Iran today from antiquity, with their own Synagogues, and they live in peace. Fact, is Jews lived in many countries of the middle east and did not encounter any unnecessary mistreatment as you characterize it or more than any other ethnic group.

Excerpt from wiki:
"[The 1948 Palestinian exodus, known in Arabic as the Nakba (Arabic: an-Nakbah, lit. "disaster", "catastrophe", or "cataclysm"),[1] occurred when approximately 711,000 to 726,000 Palestinian Arabs fled or were expelled from their homes, during the 1947–1948 Civil War in Mandatory Palestine and the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[2] The term Nakba also refers to the period of war itself and events affecting Palestinians from December 1947 to January 1949, and is synonymous in that sense with what is known to Israelis as the War of Independence (Hebrew: מלחמת העצמאות or מלחמת הקוממיות, Milkhemet Ha'atzma'ut, a term which covers those two events).[3][4][5][6]]"

There hasn't been any peace in that part of the world since Israel's arrival!

Quote:

The former were periodically slaughtered, and were always of a "lower" class. For inst ance, they were not allowed to own land. You lie when you say that the Zionists were trying to take over all of Palestine. They were always, and still are, willing to share the area. But the Pals still don't recognize the right of Israel to exist. How do you negotiate with such a people?

Your immediate paragraph above is PURE BULLSHIT!, Advocate. Fact is, under Ariel Sharon, "the Sabra and Shatila massacre was the slaughter of between 762 and 3,500 civilians, mostly Palestinians and Lebanese Shiites, by the Kataeb Party, a Lebanese Christian militia, in the Sabra neighborhood and the adjacent Shatila refugee camp in Beirut, Lebanon from approximately 6:00 pm 16 September to 8:00 am 18 September 1982.[3]

"The Israel Defense Forces surrounded Sabra and Shatila and stationed troops at the exits of the area to prevent camp residents from leaving and, at the Phalangists' request,[6] fired illuminating flares at night.[7][8]"

Quote:

I bring up your stupid and false statement because it shows your lack of regard for the truth in making your points. You made up the statement to show that Muslims had a strong presence even 2,000 years ago, not realizing the statement's stupidity.

I have much regard for the truth when I encounter it; there was semantic confusion in my much earlier post on this subject, and instead of Muslims I should have said Palestinians. However, out of your apprehensiveness and insecurities, thinking you've scored a big one you will go on and on like people born with a brain malfunction, i.e., a symptomatic repetitive mental disorder, similarly to the outpatient, JTT. Muslim's ancestors had more than a "strong presence," they were the people of the entire land of Palestine. The first Christian was a Palestinian Jew. The natives were all Palestinians, or do you find this comparability too difficult to comprehend?
_______

I'm rushing to get out of here, now, but will look forward to your response this evening. Have a good day.

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@Moment-in-Time,

The Arabs would treat you as a heretic, and would hate you possibly worse than they hate Jews. Jews, at least, are people of the book.

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

The Arabs would treat you as a heretic, and would hate you possibly worse than they hate Jews. Jews, at least, are people of the book.

You are talking about "the Arabs" in Palestine, correct? Those whom you usually name deprecatingly 'Pals'?

Do you have any idea whom the Pope visited during his recent stay in Palestine (The Pope referred to it as "State of Israel".)? Who those ten thousands people have been who attended masses in Palestine?
(The Apostolic Delegation for Palestine and Jerusalem is situated in East Jerusalem - the Holy Sea has diplomatic "relations of a special nature" with Palestine, thus it's no nunciature. - The Representative of Palestine to the Holy See has his diplomatic offices in Via Calvi Risorta, 60, Vatican City.)
Holy See (Vatican City) )

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

The Roman Catholic Church has two Archdiocese in Palestine, btw: one each for the (larger) Latin Rite and the Melkite Rite. Headed are both by archbishops: the (Latin) Patriarch of Jerusalem (Patriarchal See in East Jerusalem)and the Eparch of Akka, Haifa, Nazareth and All of Galilee Eparchial See in Nazareth).

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For a good summary of what Pal Christians face, see http://thefederalist.com/2014/05/01/what-happens-when-a-palestinian-doesnt-hate-israel-enough/

Christians in Palestine are an endangered people.

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

Christians in Palestine are an endangered people.

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpsd6dde0ac.jpg

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/c_zpsbcabfe53.jpg

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/b_zpse62df955.jpg

1 Reply

@Advocate,

Quote:

Christians in Palestine are an endangered people.

All Palestinians in Israel and especially those in the West Bank are an endangered species.

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

You're well educated about the Presbyterian Church (USA), I suppose,

All I need to know about them is that they are a nest of anti-Semites.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

and attended the 42nd General Assembly to get this well founded judgment.

No. I merely took the reporting on what they are doing, and the reporting on what they say their reasons are, at face value.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I've honestly thought, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A) is pulling millions of dollars in investments out of three U.S. companies tied to the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories.

Yes. They are trying to impose hardship on Israel to punish them for the fact that the Palestinians refuse to make peace.

As I previously noted, if Israel is punished for the fact that the Palestinians refuse to make peace, that automatically grants Israel the right to punish the Palestinians for refusing to make peace.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:
....

You and Olivier must think that "refusing to attribute quotes to the person you are quoting" counts as some sort of childish spite towards me for telling you how to turn on the feature. But all it really does is make it look like you don't know how to use a computer.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

For moral reasons they have chosen to divest from companies doing business with Israel.

There is nothing at all moral about anti-Semites trying to harm Israel.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Being called a liar by the likes of you is considered a compliment.

Anti-Semites often pretend that being denounced by moral people is a complement.

It really isn't though.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

the myriad criminal faults of Israel,

Your anti-Semitic lies are repugnant.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

you appear to have no conscience....no moral integrity

Those are some pretty bold accusations coming from an anti-Semite.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

the mentally upside down, Oralloy.

Says the person who can't point to a single fact that I'm wrong about.

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@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

oralloy wrote:
Presbytarian Church (USA) Palestine-Israel mission wrote:
ACSWP calls for the “establishment and protection of equal human rights for all inhabitants” of Israel and Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza as well as “free and fair elections” within the Palestinian territories.

Are the Presbyterian anti-Semites also going to call on Germany to allow the American populace to vote in German elections?

I don't understand why you ask this.

I ask because the anti-Semites are trying to force Israel to allow Palestinians who reside outside Israel (and who are not Israeli citizens) to vote in Israeli elections.

If countries are going to be forced to allow non-citizens to vote in their elections, then Americans should be allowed to get in on the action. We should be allowed to vote in other countries' elections.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

I am a nonbeliever in gods....a freethinker.....

This silly pretense that being an atheist is an indication of independent thinking is, well, silly.

Just as with any other religion, some people are open-minded, and some people are not.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Yet, let me reiterate once again, along with Frank Apisa's enduring words.....

Pass. Every single thing that Frank Apisa ever says is, without exception, always an outright lie.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

It is only when the Zionist nation, created in 1948, desired a goal of owning the whole shebang of Palestine, that problems began

Nope. The problems began when people started stealing the Jews' land.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

and has only gotten worse with the US giving Israel the military edge over all she surveys and today, the Zionist nation is the region's Superpower, with its nuclear facility. Only Pakistan and India in South Asia, have nuclear facilities.

That strength has given Israel the confidence to be much less proactive about keeping their neighbors suppressed. We'd have had a number of 1967-style wars in recent years if not for the security provided to Israel by their superior strength.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Advocate, you are so impoverished when it comes to creativity that you keep on repeating the same ole same ole.

You're thinking like a liar here. You liars desire creativity when you concoct your insidious lies.

But when it comes to those of us who tell the truth, we aren't concocting anything. We merely state facts.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

and are beginning to resemble more and more the likes of Oralloy's repetitiveness.

Just because your lies are ever-changing, that does not mean the truth ever changes.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

You really should try to be more imaginative, or am I asking too much?!?

You are asking too much. Telling the truth does not involve creativity. All that is required is honesty.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

The Muslims of today are the progeny of the Palestinians living two thousand years ago and further back.

Liar.

1 Reply

@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Fact, is Jews lived in many countries of the middle east and did not encounter any unnecessary mistreatment as you characterize it or more than any other ethnic group.

What is it about anti-Semites that they always try to deny their bad behavior?

Moment-in-Time wrote:

There hasn't been any peace in that part of the world since Israel's arrival!

Wrong. There hasn't been any peace in that part of the world since Islam's arrival.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:
The former were periodically slaughtered, and were always of a "lower" class. For instance, they were not allowed to own land. You lie when you say that the Zionists were trying to take over all of Palestine. They were always, and still are, willing to share the area. But the Pals still don't recognize the right of Israel to exist. How do you negotiate with such a people?

Your immediate paragraph above is PURE BULLSHIT!, Advocate.

You shouldn't run around falsely accusing Advocate of your own dishonesty.

You know very well that Israel has repeatedly offered to share the land with the Palestinians, only to have the Palestinians reply with widespread murders of innocent Israelis.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:
....

As I noted before, you and Olivier must think that "refusing to attribute quotes to the person you are quoting" counts as some sort of childish spite towards me for telling you how to turn on the feature. But all it really does is make it look like you don't know how to use a computer.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

I have much regard for the truth when I encounter it;

No you don't. All you ever do is spew despicable lies.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

Muslim's ancestors had more than a "strong presence," they were the people of the entire land of Palestine.

Liar. The Israelis were the indigenous people of Palestine. The Muslims are invaders from somewhere else.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

The natives were all Palestinians,

Liar. The natives were all Israelis. The Palestinians came from somewhere else.

Moment-in-Time wrote:

or do you find this comparability too difficult to comprehend?

It is not that your lies are difficult to comprehend. The problem is that your lies are all completely untrue.

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@Moment-in-Time,

Moment-in-Time wrote:

All Palestinians in Israel and especially those in the West Bank are an endangered species.

The ones in Israel are not in danger.

The ones in the West Bank deserve every bit of what is going to happen to them now.

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@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Moment-in-Time wrote:
Yet, let me reiterate once again, along with Frank Apisa's enduring words.....

Pass. Every single thing that Frank Apisa ever says is, without exception, always an outright lie.

Oralloy is:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS0hoTMaNhLbilaR-GlNnGcWyzJMFSiRMBuuzBBEkYtWOFTLzOcJw

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@Walter Hinteler,

Advocate wrote:

Christians in Palestine are an endangered people.

Quote:

Christian exodus shadows papal visit to Holy Land

By DANIEL ESTRIN The Associated Press - • Updated: June 22, 2014 at 7:49 am

The Christian exodus is taking place across the Middle East. Jordan has thousands of Christian refugees from war-torn Syria and Iraq.

For the Catholic Church, the phenomenon is particularly heartbreaking in the cradle of Christianity. According to Christian tradition, Jesus was born in the West Bank town of Bethlehem, spent much of his life in Nazareth and the northern Galilee region of Israel, and was crucified and resurrected in Jerusalem.

The pope said in a speech that "we will not be resigned to think about the Middle East without Christians," lamenting that they "suffer particularly from the consequences of the tensions and conflicts underway" across the region.

Christians in the Holy Land have dwindled from more than 10 percent of the population on the eve of Israel's founding to between 2 and 3 percent today.

The decline began with high Jewish immigration and Christian emigration after the 1948 war surrounding Israel's establishment, and has been abetted by continued emigration and a low birthrate among Christians who stay.

Israeli restrictions in the occupied West Bank also have persuaded Christians to leave.

The concrete and fence barrier Israel built to keep out Palestinian attackers has choked cities such as Bethlehem and separated Palestinians from their farmlands. Palestinian Christians are prohibited from entering Jerusalem except during holidays.

Via The Gazette (Colorado Springs)

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Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

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