63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2014 12:47 pm
@MontereyJack,
Bingo.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2014 01:45 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:

foofie says:
Quote:
And, some want the turf that was set aside for the Jews.


Ah, now there's the whole problem right there. What gave the Brits and the League of Nations the "right" to give away the land that the Palestinians and their ancestors had been living on for centuries, to someon else? The whole thing, the Balfour Declaration and the Palestinian Mandate, was the last dying gasp of thoroughly discredited European Imperialism. The Palestinians weren't consulted, and they have never agreed to the illegal--in their eyes and the eyes of the world since WWII-expropriation of their land.


And to think...that area of the world was relatively peaceful for centuries...while Europe and Asia were fighting all sorts of wars. The Jews and Arabs of the area got along relatively decently...

...until the state of Israel was created.

Now...all hell has broken out...and there is no repair.

Jews have had lots of crap thrown at them over the years...and I have no problem sympathizing with them and their plight.

But the problem of that area lies completely with the creation of a state of Israel...and not with the population who is outraged by that having happened.

There will never be peace there so long as a state of Israel exists...and any Arabs live there also.

Peace talks are a joke.




0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2014 02:58 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
The whole thing, the Balfour Declaration and the Palestinian Mandate, was the last dying gasp of thoroughly discredited European Imperialism.



"The Balfour Declaration deliberately did not endorse establishment of a Jewish nation. The declaration was contained in a letter sent by British Foreign Secretary Arthur James Balfour to Lord Rothschild, president of the British Zionist Federation, on November 2, 1917. The declaration had been approved by the British cabinet and said: "His Majesty's government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievements of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." In 1939 a British White Paper specifically stated that Great Britain "could not have intended Palestine should be converted into a Jewish state against the will of the Arab population of the country."

"At the time of the 1917 Balfour Declaration there were about 600,000 Arabs in Palestine and about 60,000 Jews. Over the next thirty years the ratio narrowed as Jewish immigration increased especially as a result of the anti-Semitic policies of Adolf Hitler. However, on the eve of the 1947 UN plan to partition Palestine, Arabs still were a large majority, with Jews amounting to only one-third of the population–––608,225 Jews to 1,237,332 Arabs. When Max Nordau, an early Zionist and friend of Zangwill, learned in 1897 there was an indigenous Arab population in Palestine, he exclaimed: "I didn't know that! *We are committing an injustice.*"

"Not only were people already in Palestine, but they had a well-established society that was recognized by other Arabs as uniquely "Palestinian." It consisted of respected intellectual and professional classes, political organizations, and a thriving agrarian economy that was expanding into the crude beginnings of modern industry." Observes scholar John Quigley: "The Arab population had been stable for hundreds of years. There was no substantial in-migration in the nineteenth century."
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2014 03:43 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
So much historical facts will only confuse the anti-Arab folks; they'll ignore it like everything else. After all, god gave them that land, who has the right to argue?
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Fri 16 May, 2014 04:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

So much historical facts will only confuse the anti-Arab folks; they'll ignore it like everything else. After all, god gave them that land, who has the right to argue?


On the contrary, with the extreme exception of Oralloy, most understand what is written, but it does not further their cause to admit to reality or just plain commonsense. Even the current Israeli leaders most likely do not believe a god gave Israel this land.....just because they were born in the cultural ethnic group of Judaism, does not mean they believe in the god of bygone days, before man was educated. The obsessed irrational settlers who claim fervently "God gave them this land, all of it" will wickedly and immorally continue their attacks on the Pals. These settlers should have every settlement in the West Bank taken away from them and they (the settlers) should be placed inside Israel proper.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Fri 16 May, 2014 04:36 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:

In regard to the Zionists' treatment of the Palestinians, less free does equate to concentration camps, your paranoid rationalizations notwithstanding. The concentration camps pre-date the suicide bombings. It's fairly basic, the concentration camps are the cause and the suicide bombings are the effect.


Your use of the word "concentration camps" cannot be found in any mainstream media.


Look it up in a dictionary.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 16 May, 2014 04:52 pm
@InfraBlue,
Is it any wonder that foofie doesn't understand the situation of the Palestinians. When any individual, especially any group, that's been the victims of mistreatment by another group still doesn't understand the definition of "concentration camp" is not surprising.

The camps in Germany and Poland for the Jews have been called "concentration camps" by many - even by Jews, but whose quibbling?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 16 May, 2014 09:47 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
[...]
According to Maariv correspondent Ben Caspit, Israel believes the US may be behind the action, persuading Germany to punish Israel for the breakdown in talks with the PA (Palestinian Authority).
[...]
Merkel has not hid her disappointment surrounding the failed talks, placing most of the blame on Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, not the PA. This leads some to believe that the chancellor acted on her own, without any US involvement towards backing out of the deal.

Maariv quotes another senior individual anonymously, who explains it may not be that simple since in order for Germany to grant such a sizable reduction in costs it must obtain approval from its parliament and perhaps Merkel realized it would not pass.
... ... ...
Source

Any could be true, or even all three in combination.

But the fact remains: Penalizing Israel for the fact that the Palestinians refuse to make peace, legitimizes any Israeli move to unilaterally impose a two-state solution drawn entirely to Israeli preferences.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 16 May, 2014 09:52 pm
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
What gave the Brits and the League of Nations the "right" to give away the land that the Palestinians and their ancestors had been living on for centuries, to someon else? The whole thing, the Balfour Declaration and the Palestinian Mandate, was the last dying gasp of thoroughly discredited European Imperialism. The Palestinians weren't consulted, and they have never agreed to the illegal--in their eyes and the eyes of the world since WWII-expropriation of their land.

It is rather silly for Palestinians and Muslims to believe that their theft of something makes them the legitimate owners of what they steal.

This land was not being given away. It was being restored to its rightful owners.

And no, the world does not regard the creation of Israel as illegal.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 16 May, 2014 09:52 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
Bingo.

It is quite noteworthy that every single person who is deranged enough to support Palestinian vermin, also supports sending innocent people to prison.

Just further proof of what horrid scum the Palestinians all are. I can't wait until Israel boots them all out of the West Bank.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 16 May, 2014 09:55 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
On the contrary, with the extreme exception of Oralloy, most understand what is written,

You have a pretty big mouth for someone whose ability to comprehend is only a small fraction of mine.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
does not mean they believe in the god of bygone days, before man was educated.

Another trait universal to thugs who support the Palestinians. They also go around badmouthing religion.

Going around badmouthing religion only makes them look like deranged zealots though. Their support for sending innocent people to prison is much more horrendous.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
settlers should have every settlement in the West Bank taken away from them and they (the settlers) should be placed inside Israel proper.

The IDF won't allow that to happen.

But look for the Palestinians to be packing their bags sometime in the future.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 16 May, 2014 09:56 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Foofie wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
In regard to the Zionists' treatment of the Palestinians, less free does equate to concentration camps, your paranoid rationalizations notwithstanding. The concentration camps pre-date the suicide bombings. It's fairly basic, the concentration camps are the cause and the suicide bombings are the effect.

Your use of the word "concentration camps" cannot be found in any mainstream media.

Look it up in a dictionary.

You know very well that he was not asking the definition of the word, but rather was pointing out that your usage of the word was an outright lie.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Fri 16 May, 2014 10:42 pm
@oralloy,
As if the mainstream media define what it truthful.

The shoe fits, as it were.
oralloy
 
  0  
Sat 17 May, 2014 12:36 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
The shoe fits, as it were.

Your anti-Semitic lies are despicable.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2014 03:23 am
@InfraBlue,
Oralboy is a low life piece of crap who fantasises about killing babies. That's all you need to know about him.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2014 01:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
After all, god gave them that land, who has the right to argue?


I realize your question is for rhetorical effect, Ci, but I will answer it as tho you were serious. I, we, have a right to argue with respect to the Palestinian vs Israeli conflict, after all, as an American tax payer to Israel, why not?!? ! Most people do not realize that Hebrews wrote the Old Testament, not a god, and it was written by many hands over time; it was the Hebrews' cultural religion and it was the Hebrews who stated THEY were the "Chosen People," after all, it was their book, their religion, their culture so why not make themselves the "Chosen Ones"?

Akhenaten, Pharaoh of the Eighteenth Dynasty, introduced Monotheism to his people, abandoning traditional Egyptian polytheism. There were over 102 Commandments for the Egyptian people to follow daily. After his death, Egyptians hurriedly returned to their polytheism, with the exception of the Hebrews who kept Monotheism alive after they were freed from Egyptian slavery.

If you can prove to me a god gave Palestine to the Jews I would immediately covert to becoming a believer in a god.

In my opinion, Man created gods because there was an emotional and psychological need for such an entity.....remember during our very earliest, man was just trying to survive from day to day, fruit gatherers....their imagination went to work and their gods at first were majestic animals, trees, the stars, Jupiter, Mars, etc; there are people today who still need/rely on religion as a crutch. I maintain respect for these people because our culture is undergoing change, and eventually, we, all of us, will reach that tableau when life and experience will have taught us much more than we realize today.
Advocate
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2014 02:41 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:
After all, god gave them that land, who has the right to argue?


I realize your question is for rhetorical effect, Ci, but I will answer it as tho you were serious. I, we, have a right to argue with respect to the Palestinian vs Israeli conflict, after all, as an American tax payer to Israel, why not?!? ! Most people do not realize that Hebrews wrote the Old Testament, not a god, and it was written by many hands over time; it was the Hebrews' cultural religion and it was the Hebrews who stated THEY were the "Chosen People," after all, it was their book, their religion, their culture so why not make themselves the "Chosen Ones"?

Akhenaten, Pharaoh of the Eighteenth Dynasty, introduced Monotheism to his people, abandoning traditional Egyptian polytheism. There were over 102 Commandments for the Egyptian people to follow daily. After his death, Egyptians hurriedly returned to their polytheism, with the exception of the Hebrews who kept Monotheism alive after they were freed from Egyptian slavery.

If you can prove to me a god gave Palestine to the Jews I would immediately covert to becoming a believer in a god.

In my opinion, Man created gods because there was an emotional and psychological need for such an entity.....remember during our very earliest, man was just trying to survive from day to day, fruit gatherers....their imagination went to work and their gods at first were majestic animals, trees, the stars, Jupiter, Mars, etc; there are people today who still need/rely on religion as a crutch. I maintain respect for these people because our culture is undergoing change, and eventually, we, all of us, will reach that tableau when life and experience will have taught us much more than we realize today.


Anti-Semites love to focus on the biblical "chosen people" comment to vilify Jews. Please be assured that Jews don't believe the comment, unless it is to describe a people chosen for slaughter and other persecution. Jews know very well the history of Jews throughout the centuries, which is full of slaughter and persecution. I might mention that the byword now among Jews is "never again."
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sat 17 May, 2014 02:45 pm
@Advocate,
You may know the history, but without the lessons learned from it. Jews always show how they were persecuted, but deny their persecution of others.

You 'people' have lost your humanity in believing Jews can do no wrong.

Whether from the Torah, the bible, the Koran, or any other religious' teachings.

THOU SHALT NOT STEAL. LOVE THY NEIGHBOR.
Advocate
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2014 02:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It is a pity that you are not acquainted with the "You shall not lie" commandment. You still have not provided proof on how the Israelis commit genocide and torture. Of course, there is no such proof.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sat 17 May, 2014 03:10 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Please be assured that Jews don't believe the comment, unless it is to describe a people chosen for slaughter and other persecution.
I was told that it is because of "Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." (from Exodus 19:3-6)

Edited: Rabbi Nissan Dovid Dubov explains that (better and more detailed) on various websites (e.g.Torahcafe, Chabad.org
0 Replies
 
 

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