63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 9 May, 2014 12:36 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Plus, without a Pope John XXlll, would many Catholics affect a friendly attitude towards Jews? Call me paranoid about insincerity!
Every coin has two sides, now Christians are a bit in fear in Israel ...
Quote:
Christians in Israel and Palestine fear an escalation of violence against them after a spate of vandalism in Jerusalem churches by hardline Jewish nationalists ahead of Pope Francis's visit this month.

Earlier this week vandals wrote "Death to Arabs and Christians" in Hebrew on the Vatican's Notre Dame centre in Jerusalem's Old City and on Thursday night offensive graffiti was written on a wall close to the Romanian Orthodox church.

Pope Francis is due to stay at the Notre Dame centre during his two-day trip to Jerusalem and Bethlehem from 24 to 26 May.
Source
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  0  
Fri 9 May, 2014 01:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Quote:
The Israelis claim that anti-Semitism is behind the boycott, but they don’t see the real reason: the occupation of Palestinian lands and the subjugation of the Palestinians over the years.

Lillian Laskin, Los Angeles



It is quite clear from your endless criticisms of Israel that you are an anti-Semite.

BTW, Israel went nearly two decades essentially without setting foot in the WB and Gaza. But the Pals rewarded Israel for this by making hundreds of attacks on Israel and its people. Israel has learned that concessions to the Pals don't pay off.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 01:33 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Good reply in furthering understanding past some of our inabilities (me too) to comprehend Advocate on all this.

I don't post here often but do read from time to time, trying to catch up. I'm not anti Palestinians/their beliefs nor Israelis of different religions, as people, but I'm against some behaviors on both sides.. have long been against the illegal settlements. Oh, and against american behaviors over some decades now. I started out years ago quite the opposite, but stopped thinking just one way when the settlements started and then went on.

I'm talking re several pages back.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 01:51 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

Good reply in furthering understanding past some of our inabilities (me too) to comprehend Advocate on all this.

I don't post here often but do read from time to time, trying to catch up. I'm not anti Palestinians/their beliefs nor Israelis of different religions, as people, but I'm against some behaviors on both sides.. have long been against the illegal settlements. Oh, and against american behaviors over some decades now. I started out years ago quite the opposite, but stopped thinking just one way when the settlements started and then went on.

I'm talking re several pages back.


For sure there is more than enough blame to go around...many, many times. Both sides have been stone-headed and unyielding and both sides have legitimate reasons for the positions they are taking.

For outsiders, it is easy from time-to-time to favor one side or the other because of pressures and feelings far removed from the immediate situation.

Bottom line for me: There will NEVER EVER be anything resembling lasting peace in that area so long as there is a state of Israel...and any significant population of Arabs.

There was relative peace there before Israel was established as a state...a peace that last for many, many centuries. Jews and Arabs got along relatively well. Now there anything but peace...and something closer to chaos.

This will prevail until the state of Israel leaves that area...or the state of Israel annihilates all but an insignificant number of the Arabs in the Middle East.

The peace process nonsense from time to time is nothing more than that...NONSENSE.


oralloy
 
  0  
Fri 9 May, 2014 01:53 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:
Good reply in furthering understanding past some of our inabilities (me too) to comprehend Advocate on all this.

You don't comprehend Advocate because you are evil and you hate truth and justice.

Advocate is simply telling the truth that you hate so much.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Fri 9 May, 2014 02:00 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Really, Walter? Not that I don't believe it, but that that surprises me. (I'm hard to surprise too)
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Fri 9 May, 2014 02:19 pm
@ossobuco,
Yes. What I found more surprising was that she got a "praying guide", a young woman from her guest parent's church, praying with her two afternoons per week, so she didn't end in hell (she's Protestant/Evangelical - her guest parents were Baptists)

But besides all that, she really liked it there. (Has been back there again twice)
ossobuco
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 02:20 pm
@Olivier5,
So true and horrible, at least re the ship.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 02:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
So, you want the Brits to take it back by mandate?

I have read long reviews of books by some non-Netanyahu-like israeli Jews (I rarely capitalize religions but in this case that would be taken as a jerk attitude) and I don't know that they won't eventually have more sway. Part of the Netanyahu sway is money. At the same time, I don't take Palestinians as all without sanity.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 9 May, 2014 02:43 pm
@Advocate,
Quote:
BTW, Israel went nearly two decades essentially without setting foot in the WB and Gaza. But the Pals rewarded Israel for this by making hundreds of attacks on Israel and its people.

That is not true. The period between 50 and 67 was the most peaceful ever for Israel. There were very few terrorist attacks back then.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 02:48 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Oh, good, whew.

Part of my surprise was that I was raised for some years Chicago adjacent, as you know; in my neighborhood of that town there was heavy representation of irish and german americans. Of course, the germans were the best cooks...

(Walter and CI and Thomas and I and a bunch more spent some days in Chicago with an a2k group, wonderful time, with people fond of arguing getting along fine)

Ok, back to the serioso stuff.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 02:50 pm
@Olivier5,
Not quite.
From Wiki.
Quote:
Irgun
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Irgun (Hebrew: אִרְגּוּן; full title: הָאִרְגּוּן הַצְּבָאִי הַלְּאֻמִּי בְאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל Ha-Irgun Ha-Tzvai Ha-Leumi be-Eretz Yisrael, lit. "The National Military Organization in the Land of Israel"), was a Zionist paramilitary group that operated in Mandate Palestine between 1931 and 1948. It was an offshoot of the earlier and larger Jewish paramilitary organization Haganah (Hebrew: "Defense", הגנה). When the group broke from the Haganah it became known as the Haganah Bet (Hebrew: literally "Defense 'B' " or "Second Defense", הגנה ב), or alternatively as haHaganah haLeumit (ההגנה הלאומית) or Ha'ma'amad (המעמד‎).[1] Irgun members were absorbed into the Israel Defense Forces at the start of the 1948 Arab–Israeli war. The Irgun is also referred to as Etzel (אצ"ל), an acronym of the Hebrew initials, or by the abbreviation IZL.

The Irgun policy was based on what was then called Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky. According to Howard Sachar, "The policy of the new organization was based squarely on Jabotinsky's teachings: every Jew had the right to enter Palestine; only active retaliation would deter the Arabs; only Jewish armed force would ensure the Jewish state".[2]

Two of the operations for which the Irgun is best known are the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre, carried out together with Lehi on 9 April 1948.

The Irgun has been viewed as a terrorist organization or organization which carried out terrorist acts.[3][4] In particular the Irgun was branded a terrorist organisation by Britain,[5] the 1946 Zionist Congress[6] and the Jewish Agency.[7] The Irgun believed that any means necessary to establish the Jewish State of Israel, including terrorism, was justifiable.[8]

The Irgun was a political predecessor to Israel's right-wing Herut (or "Freedom") party, which led to today's Likud party.[9] Likud has led or been part of most Israeli governments since 1977.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 02:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Fri 9 May, 2014 03:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That was pre-48... But indeed Irgun was a terrorist group. Menachem Begin was part of it and later became prime minister.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 03:07 pm
@Olivier5,
All true, but they never really stopped with their goal to take over Palestine from before 1948 and now. They're still a terrorist organization. Taking property of others without paying for it is not only illegal under international law, but goes beyond ethics and the laws of god. THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Fri 9 May, 2014 03:30 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

So, you want the Brits to take it back by mandate?

I have read long reviews of books by some non-Netanyahu-like israeli Jews (I rarely capitalize religions but in this case that would be taken as a jerk attitude) and I don't know that they won't eventually have more sway. Part of the Netanyahu sway is money. At the same time, I don't take Palestinians as all without sanity.


Actually, I don't think it will ever happen, Ossobuco.

My guess on pessimistic days is that Earth's final great war will start there because of the enmity between the parties.

On optimistic days I guess that one of Earth's final great wars will start there.

In either case, I see "peace process" as a joke...and the fact that the process is almost always being brokered by the US...makes it a rather dirty joke.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 03:48 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
That is not true. The period between 50 and 67 was the most peaceful ever for Israel. There were very few terrorist attacks back then.

Nonsense.
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 04:36 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Why do so many Americans ignore the 60 million American Born Again Christians, and their position on Israel? They are really very adamant about Israel being the ancestral home of Jews/Hebrews. Their bible prophecy mandates Jews living in Israel for the Second Coming to occur. Politicians in the states that have many Born Agains do look to them for a vote also.

I suspect that many who have issues with Israel don't want to lock horns with Born Agains. They are not the proverbial timid Jew. More like crazy MF's if riled, perhaps?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Fri 9 May, 2014 04:38 pm
@oralloy,
From the Jewish Community Relations Council.
Quote:
The Arab-Israeli Wars (1948-2006)

Go to this link to look at each one of the following.
http://www.jcrcboston.org/focus/support/israels-history/the-arab-israeli-wars.html
To learn about the Arab-Israeli Wars:

The War of Independence (1947-49)

The Sinai Compaign (1956)

The Six- Day War (1967)

The War of Attrition (1968-70)

The Yom Kippur War (1973)

Operation Peace for Galilee (1982)

The Gulf War (1991)

Lebanon War II (2006)
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 9 May, 2014 04:44 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
I guess one could leave out the "fellow"?

Why can't one accept the less than pleasing traits of one's specific group?

What traits?

Yet the actual people who perpetrated the holocaust were protestant, in their majority. Also, a country like the US, with a strong protestant majority, refused to accept german jewish refugees in the 30's... so your memory of the holocaust is partial.


That "strong Protestant majority" might have had an epiphany about Jews, and their value in a country blessed with many of mediocre talent and intelligence? My "membory" isn't "partial"; it is realistic.
 

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