63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:14 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Thanks for putting things back on track. The latest.

Quote:
A Palestinian has been shot dead in northern Gaza by Israeli troops, Palestinian sources say.

The body of 22-year-old Odeh Hamad was recovered from near Beit Hanoun, close to the border with Israel, emergency services in Gaza said.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25470126


Also mention the bus in Tel Aviv that had a bomb aboard. The bus discharged its passengers before the bomb went off.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:21 pm
@Foofie,
That doesn't excuse all the innocent men, women and children killed by the Jews.
Foofie
 
  1  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:22 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Jealous because the USA didn't join the 'club' of imperialistic countries before 1898?


Hey, that was my accusation. Get your own writers.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:25 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:

Quote:
All of us speaking against the apartheid of Israel are "anti-Semites."

They still haven't figured it out that they've twisted the use of that term so badly, it's lost any meaning.


Well many pro-Zionists are on the defensive because the UN resolutions against Israel seems inexhaustible. The US to its discredit always vetoes these most damaging resolutions. This only make followers of Israeli/Palestinians conflict angrier and angrier which in turn is interpreted by pro-Zionists as anti-Semitism. But one things posters who use this term time after time should realize they have rendered the adjective "anti-Semitic" meaningless. Their failure to recognize this overuse of the term gives us an idea as to their state of mind. The English language is filled meaningful words by which one may express themselves without boring the reader tediously with the same old monotone.


Then let's use "Judeophobic" instead. That really is the driving force, in my opinion, for many of European descent to feel that Jews should not have their own homeland.
Foofie
 
  1  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:30 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

That doesn't excuse all the innocent men, women and children killed by the Jews.


I never said it did, but thanks for adding your two non-sequitorial cents.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:32 pm
@Foofie,
You,
Quote:
Then let's use "Judeophobic" instead.

That's still similar to calling one "anti-Semitic." Name calling is fine if it has relevance, but the charges made by Jews on this thread is meaningless, because the charges claimed by many posters are true - based on the UN and human rights organizations. Those labeling us anti-Semites and Judeophobic use labels as if it has some meaning; it doesn't. For labels to have meaning, it must be evidenced by identifying what is anti-Semitic or Judeophobic.

Even many Jews (including those living in Israel) make the same charges of "apartheid, bigotry, land stealing, and killing of innocent Palestinians."

You have to get your head out of your arse, and see the light.

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:39 pm
@Foofie,
FYI, the title of this thread is "Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?"

Calling anybody on this thread Judeophobic is tantamount to calling me that name too, since it has almost the same meaning as anti-Semitic, and I have a right to respond.

You're probably in the wrong thread if you believe my post is a non-sequitur.

I even explained why those labels have no meaning.
Foofie
 
  1  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 07:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

FYI, the title of this thread is "Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?"

Calling anybody on this thread Judeophobic is tantamount to calling me that name too, since it has almost the same meaning as anti-Semitic, and I have a right to respond.

You're probably in the wrong thread if you believe my post is a non-sequitur.

I even explained why those labels have no meaning.


Judeophobia is a very real belief that "Jews, whatever they are doing can/will be detrimental to the Gentile community." In other words, when anyone sides with the Arab desire to eliminate the state of Israel, as a Zionist state, is many times just Judeophobic thinking to not let Jews gain a small plot of land that they can "breed on" autonomously. In effect, Judeophobia always needs to disenfranchise the Jew from being autonomous (aka, always be under the hegemony of Gentiles).

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 08:02 pm
@Foofie,
Wow, your sweeping denigration of all those you deem as Judeophotics shows great interpretive powers.

I've never felt fear of Jews; I worked for three of them as bosses, and they have treated me very well! I even visited Israel two times, and felt safe as I have on most of my travels in this world.

What in hell are you trying to say? Your fear of Arabs is ill founded, but what the Jews are doing in Israel doesn't help their cause one iota.

Not all Arabs wish to see all Jews dead. Your fears are unfounded.

Your "small plot of land" is laughable and sick-minded at the same time. If you ever bothered to look at a map of Palestine before 1946 and 2013, you'll see in clear graphic form how much land the Jews have stolen from the Palestinians.
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  1  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 09:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

Calling anybody on this thread Judeophobic is tantamount to calling me that name too, since it has almost the same meaning as anti-Semitic, and I have a right to respond.


Foofie, I gather, is trying to be somewhat original, he doesn't want to be tarred with the label monotony; even his reply is wrong. He is terribly misguided, suggesting Israeli critics hates Jews.... but Israeli governmental policies which are nauseating in the extreme, takes land from the Palestinians while trying their damn best to make these people disappear. Why can't the Jews return to their 1967 borders and keep the hell out of the West Bank. The Palestinians finally got recognition by the UN General Assembly as a sovereign nation and Israel and the US almost had conniptions.

Quote:
You're probably in the wrong thread if you believe my post is a non-sequitur.


Perhaps Foofie doesn't understand the meaning of "non-Sequitur. "
Advocate
 
  1  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 09:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I looked at your maps. Does Egypt know that you ceded the Sinai to Israel?

That typifies the absurdity of your maps.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 09:33 pm
@Advocate,
I did not prepare that map, so you'll have to challenge the maker of that map.

But I found it very funny that all you could challenge was one very small part of Israel/Palestine. That map speaks volumes; you, evidently, missed the whole message. You're a jerk; a stupid jerk who has no feelings for other groups that lives in Israel.

Here; challenge all these map makers.
https://www.google.com/search?q=map+of+israel+palestine+1967&rlz=1C1CHME_enUS305&espv=210&es_sm=122&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Ha-3Ut6gBcveoATVooLoAg&ved=0CCsQsAQ&biw=1247&bih=674
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 09:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This article is long, but worth the read.

Quote:
A Synopsis of the Current Situation in Israel/Palestine

Fortunately, the American media cover many events in Israel with great detail and thoroughness. Therefore, we are not repeating that coverage here. Instead, we are attempting to fill in the many important news items – most of them about incidents in the Palestinian territories – that are not available in the U.S. media.

For more thorough daily coverage of the region, view “The Missing Headlines,” and our recommended sources of daily news.

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip live in an odd and oppressive limbo. They have no nation, no citizenship, and no ultimate power over their own lives.

Since 1967, when Israel conquered these areas (the final 22 percent of mandatory Palestine), Palestinians have been living under Israeli military occupation. While in some parts Israel has allowed a Palestinian “autonomous” entity to take on such municipal functions as education, health care, infrastructure and policing, Israel retains overall power.

According to international law, an occupying force is responsible for the protection of the civilian population living under its control. Israel, however, ignores this requirement, routinely committing violations of the Geneva Conventions, a set of principles instituted after World War II to ensure that civilians would “never again” suffer as they had under Nazi occupation. Israel is one of the leading violators of these conventions today.

Israeli forces regularly confiscate private land; imprison individuals without process – including children – and physically abuse them under incarceration; demolish family homes; bulldoze orchards and crops; place entire towns under curfew; destroy shops and businesses; shoot, maim, and kill civilians – and Palestinians are without power to stop any of it.

When a child is arrested, for example – often by a group of armed soldiers in the middle of the night – parents can do nothing. Knowing that their son is most likely being beaten by soldiers on the way to the station, stripped and humiliated in prison, quite likely physically abused in multiple additional ways, and destined to be held – perhaps in isolation – for days, week, or months (all before a trial has even taken place), parents are without the ability to protect their child. Quite often, in fact, they cannot even visit him.

Finally, when the military trial under which their son is to be sentenced – often to years (sometimes decades) in prison – all they can do is hire a lawyer whose efforts, at best, will reduce the ultimate sentence by a few months. Rarely, if ever, can even the most skilled lawyer do more than afford the child a friendly face in court and be an outside witness to the injustice of the proceedings. Meanwhile, the presence of such a lawyer provides Israel cover for its “judicial system.”

Perhaps most significant – and rarely understood by people in the outside world – is the fact that Palestinians live, basically, in a prison in which Israel holds the keys.

They cannot leave Gaza or the West Bank unless Israeli guards allow them to. If they have been allowed out, they cannot return to their homes and families unless Israeli guards permit it.

Frequently, in both cases, Israel refuses such permission.

Academics invited to attend conferences abroad, high school students given US State Department scholarships to study in the United States, mothers wishing to visit daughters abroad, American citizens returning to their families, humanitarians bringing wheelchairs – the list goes on almost without limit – have all been denied permission by Israel to leave or enter their own land.

The “Intifada”

Living under such hardship and humiliation, in the year 2000 the Palestinian population began an uprising against Israeli rule called the “Intifada.” This term – rarely translated in the American media – is simply the Arabic word for uprising or rebellion – literally, it means “shaking off.” The American Revolutionary War, for example, would be called the American intifada against Britain.

This is the second such uprising. The first began in 1986 and ended in 1993 when the peace negotiations offered hopes of justice. (Sadly, in the following years these hopes were crushed after Israel, rather than withdrawing from the West Bank and Gaza, as promised, actually doubled its expansion in these areas.)

During this first uprising, which consisted largely of Palestinians throwing stones at Israeli troops (very few Palestinians had weapons), Palestinians were killed at a rate approximately 7-10 times that of Israelis.

One of the ways Israeli forces attempted to put down this rebellion was through the “break the bones” policy, implemented by Yitzhak Rabin, in which people who had been throwing stones – often youths – were held down and their arms broken. On the first day of this policy alone, one hospital in Gaza treated 200 People for fractures.1

Today’s uprising – termed the “Second Intifada” – was sparked when an Israeli general, Ariel Sharon, known for his slaughter of Palestinian civilians throughout his career, visited a Jerusalem holy site, accompanied by over a thousand armed Israeli soldiers. When some Palestinian youths threw stones, Israeli soldiers responded with live gunfire, killing 5 the first day, and 10 the second.

This uprising has now continued for over five years, as Israel periodically mounts massive invasions into Palestinian communities, using tanks, helicopter gunships, and F-16 fighter jets. Palestinian fighters resisting these forces possess rifles and homemade mortars and rockets. A minute fraction strap explosives onto their own bodies and attempt to deliver their bombs in person; often they kill only themselves.

While the large majority of Palestinians oppose suicide bombings, many feel that armed resistance has become necessary – much as Americans supported war after the attack at Pearl Harbor. Nevertheless, only a small portion take an active part in the resistance, despite the fact that virtually all support its aim: to create a nation free from foreign oppression.

Most Palestinians attempt – with greater or lesser success – to go on with their lives, raise their children, attend school, go to work, celebrate festivals, organize weddings, raise their crops, provide for their families – all the things that preoccupy people around the world.

As Israel constructs a wall around them, however, prevents them at checkpoints from traveling from town to town, destroys their crops, prevents children from traveling to schools and the sick and injured from getting to the hospitals, it is becoming increasingly difficult to live even an approximation of a normal life.

Most Palestinians feel that the Israeli government’s intention is to drive them off the land, and there is a great deal of evidence that this is the goal of many Israeli leaders.

At the same time, however, there is a small but determined minority of Israelis, joined by citizens from throughout the world, who are coming to the Palestinian Territories to oppose Israeli occupation. These “internationals,” as they are often called, take part in peaceful marches, attempt to help Palestinian farmers harvest their crops despite Israeli military closures, live in refugee camps in the hope that their presence will prevent Israeli invasions and shelling, and walk children to school.

They are sometimes beaten, shot, and killed.

Some Israeli soldiers are refusing to serve in the West Bank or Gaza, stating: “We shall not continue to fight beyond the 1967 borders in order to dominate, expel, starve and humiliate an entire people.”

Meanwhile, the semblance of Palestinian autonomy continues. Elections held in January, 2005, resulted in new Palestinian leadership that will govern under occupation and will attempt to negotiate eventual Palestinian liberation. Yet even this election demonstrated Israel’s power, as various Palestinian candidates were arrested, detained, and sometimes beaten by Israeli forces. This aspect, however, like so much else, was rarely reported by the American media.

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 09:50 pm
@Moment-in-Time,

cicerone imposter wrote:
Calling anybody on this thread Judeophobic is tantamount to calling me that name too, since it has almost the same meaning as anti-Semitic, and I have a right to respond.

You poor Nazis have it so hard with all us ethical people always denouncing your hate speech.... Poor thing.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Sun 22 Dec, 2013 09:52 pm
@Moment-in-Time,
Moment-in-Time wrote:
Foofie, I gather, is trying to be somewhat original, he doesn't want to be tarred with the label monotony;

I seriously doubt that. Your complaint about how boring it is that people always denounce your anti-Semitism as anti-Semitism, is fatuous.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
even his reply is wrong. He is terribly misguided, suggesting Israeli critics hates Jews....

Hatred is indeed what seems to drive you Nazis.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
but Israeli governmental policies which are nauseating in the extreme,

It must be terribly frustrating to you Nazis when Jews are able to defend themselves.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
takes land from the Palestinians while trying their damn best to make these people disappear.

Stop lying. No land is being taken from the Palestinians.

And in fact, quite a lot of land has been offered to the Palestinians if only they were willing to make peace.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
Why can't the Jews return to their 1967 borders and keep the hell out of the West Bank.

Because a key component of that offer is that the Palestinians have to make peace. And the Palestinians always refuse to make peace.


Moment-in-Time wrote:
The Palestinians finally got recognition by the UN General Assembly as a sovereign nation and Israel and the US almost had conniptions.

That was an unilateral act that abrogated the Oslo Accords and which will ultimately cost the Palestinians the West Bank.

They have one last chance under Secretary Kerry. But they've done a good job of squandering it (with your help I might add).
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 01:17 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

Are you aware of what anti-Semitism means?
I know the term anti-Zionism, too.

Actually, I'm not very happy with the often quoted analogy - but I also know the history of said Israel and the apartheid analogy.

0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 03:32 am
@Foofie,
I've got a low opinion of anyone who drops napalm on small children.

I've also got a low opinion of liars. You went out of your way to stick your tongue up Gob's arse telling him how you did your best to help behind the scenes in the genocide, so you were either lying then or now.

I also have a low opinion of bigots who think some races are superior to others.

So I have a very low opinion of you, and it seems I'm not the only one, which is why you're such a pathetic childless, friendless, humourless loser.

Seasons Greetings.
Advocate
 
  1  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 10:46 am
@cicerone imposter,
I guess we should ignore anything you post.

For instance, you post maps the accuracy of which you will not defend. Also, you post a long article, but don't provide the source. I guess we should assume that the source is disreputable.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 11:01 am
@Advocate,
You,
Quote:
I guess we should ignore anything you post.


I "defend" the maps that I posted to the extent you can't provide anything that "betters" it! LOL

A2k has that option.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Mon 23 Dec, 2013 11:13 am
@cicerone imposter,
I'd take it as a compliment. He pays attention to Pamela Rosa.
 

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