63
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:01 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

oralloy wrote:

There is no correlation between "race" and performance on IQ tests.



Average IQ test scores, classed by race, does show differences.


Many IQ tests are culturally biased, Foofie.

Intelligence really should have something to do with the ability to survive. My guess is there are many street smart people (both white and black) who don't score particularly well on IQ tests...who would be a hell of a lot better at surviving a major disaster than some who score in the genius level.

Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:03 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I believe many people's bias against blacks are based on "ignorance."



I disagree. In my opinion, "many people's bias against blacks are based" on a desire to have their family continue as it had been. Meaning a white family may prefer to remain white. An Asian family may prefer to remain Asian. A Christian family may prefer to remain Christian. Etc., etc.

If the old "one drop" rule from the South did not exist, then bi-racial children would neither be Black nor White, but bi-racial. I believe that would allow for less prejudice of inter-racial marriages, by the respective families, in my opinion.
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:07 am
@Miller,
Miller wrote:

Why would any woman with character and any sense of pride, allow herself to produce 8 children in 9-10 years, live on welfare at the rate $1000/child/month, consume hundreds of $$ in food stamps and moreover, if that isn't enough, have a different father for each kid and not even know who the individual father is?




I am not saying this is an answer; however, in a democracy, the power eventually shifts to the most fecund demographic. Patience wins, like in the fable of the tortoise and the hare. The race doesn't always go to the swift.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:10 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Those are the results of myopia; they don't consider many socio-economic issues related to the why's of those results.


Then one shouldn't make reference to IQ, if one does not believe they are "fair."
Advocate
 
  0  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:11 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

You get more stupid every day. In within that article is the following.
Quote:
African-Americans, who make up 22 percent of the poor, receive 14 percent of government benefits, close to their 12 percent population share.


You shame all Jews.


So you think that those additional factors make it acceptable for blacks to kill and injure whites! I think you need a checkup for Alzheimer's.
Foofie
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:11 am
@Frank Apisa,
O.K. So, what? One doesn't have a career in "street smarts."
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:23 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Canon Law is followed by Catholics. Sharia Law is followed by Muslims. Jewish religious law is followed by practicing Jews. Unless one is living in a theocracy, they only apply to the followers.

Oh yes. EU law is followed by members of the EU. I live in a sovereign nation (so far).
You are correct about those religious - I've mentioned a few more.

And EU-law has to be followed by those countries, who signed it.

FIFA law by (associated) football players. Etc. etc. ...

I live in a sovereign country. (We don't have nations here like you have those 566 Indian tribes in the USA)
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:34 am
@Foofie,
Quote:
Foofie wrote:

O.K. So, what? One doesn't have a career in "street smarts."


Kinda thought you would slough that off, Foof.

Okay.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 11:55 am
@Advocate,
There you go again diverting from the primary topic into something that's completely foreign! You continue to prove your stupidity; keep on doing it, because I'm enjoying watching your "self-destruction" at its best!
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  3  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 12:03 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:

Average IQ test scores, classed by race, does show differences.


If scientifically speaking, anthropology, the study of humans and their culture, Homo Sapiens is one species, whose birth place is Africa and all men of the same species descended from Africa, what is your criteria for inferring only whites have a higher intelligence as opposed to his blacker brother in Africa.

Transfer to everyone the same equal opportunities to develop their true potential and the only difference observed will be those born with a genetic abnormality, although there are those born with a lesser intelligence than some others, but this occurs within the family of all ethnics. There are some not too bright Jews...not all Jews are wealthy and even at one time, some were on welfare; and this applies to every ethnic group stemming from modern humans. If the original model is not flawed, meaning African man, then how can the white man who is African but only a different color, be superior mentally?

A little under 4ft skeleton called Lucy was discovered at the Hadar Formation in the Afar Triangle of Ethiopia in 1972. Lucy was called the mother of modern man. It wasn't clear from the skeleton remains whether Lucy was a male or female, but the genus (the classification of organisms) proved this was the site of modern man and the DNA inherent present throughout all living humans today, making all modern humans one and the same and blacks not a subspecies.

African Americans' heritage is one of slavery; through discriminatory barriers separating nonwhite from white people (Kim Crow), the darker race has been deliberating kept back, saddled with brainwashing, he was inferior, and unable to exploit his natural need. For a very long time African Americans were kept in poverty, inferior schools, and denied a basic education, the same as that given to his white brother. (Is it any wonder on standard tests he might not do as well as his white counterpart?) It's not that African Americans lack the mental equipment to qualify, but his lack of access to the very basics that Whites take for granted. Is this what you mean, Foofie?

In one of your posts you referred to "West Indians" as having a higher IQ than African American. This is such a backwards statement that it's hardly worth repeating; however, let me try. When blacks were on their way to the "new world" some were dropped off in the Islands, like Jamaica, Trinidad, Haiti, Puerto Rico, etc. These people came from West Africa. Spain colonized Puerto Rico, the French occupied Haiti and the UK colonized Jamaica, Trinidad etc. Pray tell how these black groups from the West Indies somehow are genetically smarter than their American brother where (unsanctioned) miscegenation, interbreeding between members of different "races-black and white, in the US has been going on since black females landed at Plymouth Rock? Many blacks are fair in color and are called Mulattoes; a significant number of these Mulattoes passed for white, taking the black gene with them; hence, in America there are many numbers of whites carrying black genes....they would be horrified to find this out, though.

African Americans have had a difficult time just getting human justice here in the US the "land of plenty." When AA were finally allowed to join the military services, even there they were discriminated against. When they left the service they were not eligible for the GI plan which would allow them to buy a house, go to college as there were no government grants from blacks, there was no helping hand. It wasn't until 1964 when they finally got the right to vote.

Foofie, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the African American brain, but people like you need desperately to believe this to be so....it's a crutch many whites use to justify their lack of accomplishment in the US, and it's so damn good for your personal ego with a need to elevate your image as being superior to minorities.
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 12:18 pm
@korkamann,
I think this paragraph is worth repeating. You,
Quote:
African Americans' heritage is one of slavery; through discriminatory barriers separating nonwhite from white people (Kim Crow), the darker race has been deliberating kept back, saddled with brainwashing, he was inferior, and unable to exploit his natural need. For a very long time African Americans were kept in poverty, inferior schools, and denied a basic education, the same as that given to his white brother. (Is it any wonder on standard tests he might not do as well as his white counterpart?) It's not that African Americans lack the mental equipment to qualify, but his lack of access to the very basics that Whites take for granted. Is this what you mean, Foofie?


Stanford did a study about "intelligence." They found that expectation had a profound impact on students at Stanford (they are at the top tier of scholastic achievement), and any negative feedback actually affected their grades.

From the study I read some years ago, the smarter students ended up doing poorly, and the average students ended up doing better.

The following was taken from another study, but has relevance to "intelligence" and expectations.

https://www.stanford.edu/dept/psychology/cgi-bin/drupalm/system/files/cdwecklearning%20success.pdf

0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 12:20 pm
@Foofie,
Is that why white women love tanning stations? LOL
cicerone imposter
 
  4  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 12:25 pm
@Foofie,
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Quote:
Those are the results of myopia; they don't consider many socio-economic issues related to the why's of those results.



You,
Quote:
Then one shouldn't make reference to IQ, if one does not believe they are "fair."


They are NOT FAIR; blacks still suffer from discrimination - which impacts their ability to have the same opportunities as whites.

Studies done at Stanford University on "Expectations" prove that even the smartest students will perform poorly if they are told they are not that smart.

It has nothing to do with race. Stanford has 10% African Americans.
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 01:17 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

Is that why white women love tanning stations? LOL


It's not only white women who love getting a tan, but some men. Take a look at the Speaker of the House, John Boenher with his perpetual tan, "a natural color which doesn't appear in human nature." Tans are beautiful and enhance the looks, I don't see anything wrong with making oneself look better, healthier and fit.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  4  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 02:53 pm
@korkamann,
korkamann wrote:
In one of your posts you referred to "West Indians" as having a higher IQ than African American. This is such a backwards statement that it's hardly worth repeating; however, let me try. When blacks were on their way to the "new world" some were dropped off in the Islands, like Jamaica, Trinidad, Haiti, Puerto Rico, etc. These people came from West Africa. Spain colonized Puerto Rico, the French occupied Haiti and the UK colonized Jamaica, Trinidad etc. Pray tell how these black groups from the West Indies somehow are genetically smarter than their American brother where (unsanctioned) miscegenation, interbreeding between members of different "races-black and white, in the US has been going on since black females landed at Plymouth Rock? Many blacks are fair in color and are called Mulattoes; a significant number of these Mulattoes passed for white, taking the black gene with them; hence, in America there are many numbers of whites carrying black genes....they would be horrified to find this out, though.


Nothing to do with IQ and genetics, but the West Indians are a vital factor when discussing Black advancement compared to other races. European immigrants arrived in America poor and generally end up richer than when they arrived whilst Blacks tended to stagnate. The reason is one of experience, even the poorest peasant will have had experience of running a small farm, taking crops to market and so on, slaves had no comparable experience. West Indians though did have a background of running their own businesses working for the Civil service and local government which is why they bucked the trend.
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 03:56 pm
An interesting opinion in Haaretz(Copied/pasted in full, because I'm not sure, if it is on the free pages as well)

Quote:
Occupation, occupation, occupation: Religion isn't Israel's big problem

Rather, it is the Jewish takeover of the area between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. A response to Eva Illouz.
By Oren Yiftachel Dec. 19, 2013

What is the cause of the segregation between groups in Israeli society? How should we cope with this and with the polarization and racism it engenders? In her soul-searching, riveting article, Prof. Eva Illouz argues that this ostensible regime of separation stems primarily from the distorted importation here of ethno-religious principles that dictated the isolationist, self-defensive Jewish existence in the Diaspora.

According to Illouz, the institutionalization of such principles under the state’s auspices, led by religious institutions and rabbis such as the late Ovadia Yosef, is the principal obstacle to the possibility of establishing a sustainable, liberal and tolerant society in Israel. This separation regime received salient expression recently when the Supreme Court rejected a petition filed by 38 Israeli citizens from different religions and groups to register their national identity as “Israeli.”

As one of the petitioners, I was disappointed at the ruling, like Illouz. That said, I take issue with the religious explanation she adduces, which in my view focuses on the symptoms and not the roots of the disease. Illouz, like most Jews, ignores the question of Palestine, without which it is impossible to understand many of the traits of Israeli society. Her analysis also ignores a comparative perspective that illuminates the character of Zionism as compared with other national movements. She appears to have fallen into what I have termed the classic “ethnogratic" trap: attributing inordinate importance to what is occurring within the Jewish “bubble.”

Refugee chases refugee

If we lift our eyes a little above the roofs of the synagogues, yeshivas and rabbis’ hats, and examine the formation of society in Israel from a comparative perspective, we will understand that the religious explanation, despite its importance, blinds us from seeing the primary cause of the separation regime: the process of the country’s takeover − namely, its ongoing “Judaization.” This process, which is imposing a Jewish identity on a land that was largely Palestinian-Arab in its recent past, “necessitates” Jewish expansion accompanied by coerced religious, ethnic, cultural, political and, most crucial, geographic separation. Clearly, if the populations were to intermingle, the edge would be taken off the Judaizing process and a different − mixed − identity would be created. In other words, it is the ongoing Judiazation, and not Judaism per se, which underlies the formation of the separation regime.

Judaization has constituted the principal project of the ethnocratic state from the day of its creation, and it is transforming Israel not only into a Jewish state, which is the conventional argument, but into a Judaizing state. This is a key distinction, as it adds a dynamic dimension to the ceaseless takeover project and does not allow the consolidation of egalitarian relations between the different ethnic communities, particularly Arabs and Jews.

The “Judaization factor” ceaselessly generates new legislation and policy initiatives which produce new types of polarization and conflict, such as the annexation of the Little Triangle of Arab communities – the Arab towns of Baka al-Garbiyeh, Taibeh and Tira – to a Palestinian state ‏(whose establishment Israel is preventing‏); the Nakba and the Boycott Laws; the proposed Prawer Law, the idea of conditioning citizenship on loyalty vows; the adoption of discriminatory family unification laws and the existence of selection committees in hundreds of suburban communities.

The Judaization factor also has intra-Jewish implications, in that it shunts to the margins weak ened groups, primarily Mizrahim ‏(Eastern Jews), Ethiopians and all those seen as “Russians,” though the intensity and violence of their exclusion are significantly less than in the case of the Palestinians.

Many studies show that a pattern of segregation characterizes almost all the settler societies in the world that engineered colonization processes in territories that were dominated by others, irrespective of their religion. Thus, we can find sharply etched separation regimes possessing deep ethnic or racial boundaries in the history of the settlement and takeover of British Protestants in Northern Ireland; French Catholics in Quebec and Algeria; Sinhalese Buddhists in Sri Lanka; Calvinist Dutch communities in South Africa; and even Russian atheists in Estonia.

It is true that the Jewish colonization of Palestine/Israel stems in part from motives different from those of the other settler states mentioned. The Jews are not British, French or Russian imperialists who settle in distant lands, backed by vast military and economic might. They are, rather, a group of persecuted, expelled communities, first from Europe and subsequently from Islamic countries, who sought shelter in the land that was the cradle of their historic and mythical identity.

The Jews can be said, in effect, to have been “expelled to their homeland.” That is why part of the colonization process was unavoidable and also rightly received the moral backing of the international community in the wake of the Holocaust. Like the Armenians after the expulsion from Turkey, perhaps, or the Boers in South Africa, who were driven out of the Cape region and took over other regions, the Jews in Palestine/Israel spawned a process which can be defined as “colonization of refugees.”

However, for the native inhabitants of this country − the Palestinians − the process of the Jewish takeover looked quite similar to other ethnic takeovers, which almost always assume the form of appropriation, settlement, expulsion and political subordination of the local population to settlers who come from afar. This being so, the Palestinians, too – like most of the colonized peoples – oppose the process with all their might, sometimes violently, and generate a constant threat to it. This dialectic intensifies the Jewish use of tactics of territorial expansion, amid an almost total separation from the retreating local residents.

The process reached a violent peak in the Israeli War of Independence ‏(the Nakba‏), when two-thirds of the Palestinians were forced out and hundreds of their villages destroyed, and have remained refugees to this day. However, contrary to democratic reasoning – which would have tried to stabilize ethnic relations after the crisis of 1948 – Israel did not stop but went on with the ethnic colonization, initially within the Green Line and afterward in the territories conquered in 1967. At the same time, Israel has so far prevented forcibly the establishment of a Palestinian state, which could provide an answer, partial but significant, to the question of the refugees and Palestinian sovereignty.

creeping apartheid

The Judaization process assumes concrete forms, such as the establishment of more than 1,000 exclusively Jewish communities, mostly in former Arab areas, on both sides of the Green Line. A striking example is playing out now in the Negev, where the state is attempting, through the Prawer plan, to dispossess Bedouin of their ancestors’ land and, at the same time, establish a series of new Jewish communities there. As part of another move, these areas were subordinated to the control of Jewish regional councils, here too on both sides of the Green Line. The municipal control ensured that the fruits of the impressive economic growth entered Jewish pockets almost exclusively.

In addition, over the years, Jewish migrants were almost the only ones allowed into the country, and a tremendous effort was made to erase the Palestinians’ history and culture. There were occasional policy changes and even compromises, such as during the period of the Oslo Accords and the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip, but those were exceptions that have not changed the general trend.

Here is the place to return to the role of religion and ask: Who was responsible for the Judaization process? Was it not precisely the secular founders of Zionism? It’s true that their secularism never completely broke with the ethno-religious vision of redemption, and also true that it used the religious establishment as the gatekeeper of Israeli citizenship, sometimes cynically. It is also apparent that the antiliberal religious forces are intensifying their messianic and racist rhetoric of late, in a move that recalls a Golem that has turned on its creator. But even here, it is not the Jewish religion but the colonial project of religious and secular groups that is the driving force of the exacerbation of the discourse and the policy of separation. This process is creating an apartheid regime in the territories, which is increasingly creeping gradually into Israel and threatening the character of the entire regime.

Historically, secular and religious groups and individuals can be considered allies in the Judaization project, in which most of them are taking part. This makes it possible for a national liberal like Yair Lapid to hook up with an ethnocrat and colonialist like Naftali Bennett in a political alliance of “brothers” which can be termed “liberal colonialism.” Significant liberal pockets of resistance exist, of course, as do deep disagreements between the religious and secular vision for Israel/Palestine. Those disagreements may even threaten Israel’s political stability. Yet, from a historical and geographical perspective, the disagreements fade in the face of the Judaization of the conflicted land.

What next? As I’ve shown, the greatest obstacle to the emergence of a sustainable democratic society in Israel is the momentum of ethno-colonialist takeover and the forced separation it necessarily entails. It is important to point out that the termination of the Judaization process does not mean the dissolution of the Jewish-Israeli national project, but quite the contrary: ending Judaization will place it on legitimate, sustainable foundations − without appropriation, suppression and expansion at the expense of others.

The true challenge lies in ending the era of takeover, with all its implications. A transition of that kind occurred in almost every other settler society everywhere, and led to recognition of the native groups and their rights, but also the rights of settlers and migrants. The change was also accompanied by a fair distribution of resources, including land and political and economic power. Only thus can the walls of separation start to dissolve, and this conflicted place can generate a common Israeli identity, which will include religious and secular, Jews and Arabs, Mizrahim and Ashkenazim − and one day might even gain the endorsement of the Supreme Court.

Prof. Oren Yiftachel teaches political geography and urban planning at Ben-Gurion University of the Desert, Be’er Sheva.
korkamann
 
  3  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 04:02 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:

Nothing to do with IQ and genetics


Excellent explanation as opposed to Foofie's saying "IQ is higher among West Indians compared to African Americans"...this unhealthy theory of IQ and genetic inferiority pertaining to African Americans is held by many. Opportunities/a fighting chance, when available to all, will average out the test scores.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 04:21 pm
@Walter Hinteler,

Thanks Walter, most interesting.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 04:29 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Excellent article, Walter. Some will call Prof. Oren Yiftachel a self-hating Jew, a anti-Semite.

Go figure.
0 Replies
 
korkamann
 
  1  
Fri 20 Dec, 2013 04:57 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I've enjoyed reading immensely your rather longish post, Walter Hinteler. It was most informative. Thank you for posting it.
0 Replies
 
 

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