Lopsided friendships

I eventually dumped the so-called friend after putting up with being nothing more than another ear to her. We worked together as well, which is why I put up with it for as long as I did. She monopolized every conversation with her thoughts and her ideas and her opinions and didn't have the time to hear what anyone else had to say. She would actually cut you off to get back to whatever she had to say. It was just ALL about her.

Yes. I had a friendship that lasted 16 years. Slowly but surely, I realized that 99 percent of our friendship was about her, her drama, her insecurities, her husband troubles, her kid troubles, her mother/father issues, her house, her decorating disasters, her drinking to excess, her, her, her....

We were talking about her same problems/issues year after year after year. Yet, she never did anything to resolve those issues. On RARE occasions we had short conversations about what was going on in my life. But, she would quickly change the subject back to herself.

I started distancing myself from her during the last few years of our friendship. I established boundaries (e.g., don't show up at my house drunk). In 2006, she became angry with me and wouldn't talk to me for months. Then she called about a year ago. It was late at night and she was drunk, crying, and wanted to know if I missed her friendship. I hung up on her. She called the next day to tell me why she was angry with me. Apparently I wasn't supportive of her teenage daughter's tumultuous dating relationship with a felon. I haven't talked to her since. At times I am sad because I truly do love her and her family. But, I don't miss the drama at all.

I used to have a friendship in which I was an unpaid therapist. Hours & hours & hours of listening on the phone, saying positive things, helping her feel better. Then one day it dawned on that I wasn't enjoying this (hearing pretty much the same stuff over & over) at all .... & furthermore, I realized she hadn't even bothered to asked me how I was. So, bit by bit, I sort of eased my way out of the situation. Now she's probably saying the same old stuff to someone else (poor thing!). I suspect all us ears are inter-changeable, really.

Yikes!

It sounds like the only way to change such a relationship is to end it.

I guess I'll have to decide if her life stories are interesting enough to keep me engaged despite her reluctance to hear mine.

It's all very strange.

Miss Toxic.

I have not spoke to her in a few months.

Im sort of liking this.

But a friendship with her is the same way except there was always real pressure to DO things for her. Very manipulative.. and she didnt even see it.
Everything was always about her as if we as her friends had to literally 'worship' her to be worthy.
It is so exhausting.

I realized last time I saw her that the only way I can be around her is to shut myself down and become ... demure.. almost.. which is IMPOSSIBLE for me. That is just not who I am.. yet.. in order to fit in, you have to allow her to insult you, be little you and otherwise make herself appear better then you for anything or it all becomes a fight.
I hate it. And I didnt realize how MUCH i hated it until I saw her again over the summer.
I could not even go to the grocery store with out hearing some backhanded comment about what i was doing.
I had ..... well.. I tried.. to make it a point to buy everything Jillian and I would need so that nothing of hers was used, touched, or opened. She is the type of friend to hand you a bill for her "time" so i jumped through hoops and almost broke myself to do so.
Yet one load of laundry , one Tablespoon of laundry soap, using her coffee pot, and a few other super small things like that were thrown in my face for "using her" and "taking advantage"


Miss Toxic. She doesnt see it.

No, not really. What you are referring to is a not uncommon scenario. The point is that the woman is using you as a sounding board, and seems to be concerned only with herself. That is not a friendship. It is a one way street.

As you have said, it is up to you to decide if this person is interesting enough as she is, or have her stories become same old, same old. It is really all about how much you are willing to tolerate.

It really depends on how strongly you feel about stuff like this happening, boomerang.:



But she sounds a lot more entertaining than than the ex-friend I mentioned. The same 3 stories (with minor variations) always. And phone calls that could last up to 3 hours! Sometimes, when I had things I needed to do, I wouldn't pick up the phone if I knew it was her.

Well fine.

Just remember, you did use quite a bit of toilet paper when you used my restroom.


Seriously....
I worked with someone like that for a long time. Not a friend, worse, I had to be in the same office with her almost every work day.

No, not worse, not when considering having a friend like this.....but taking someone's "me, me, me" all day, every day, when all you were was co-workers, but at the same time had to respect office boundaries by not saying, for instance "would you please shut the **** up?" was difficult.

I know I mentioned this one here, but other people in the office and I would occassionally play a game trying to find a subject to talk about that she couldn't turn it back to her within a minute.

We were never able to do it, and believe me, we were all impressed when she turned a conversation about prostates to something about herself.

yes boomer, I've had friends like this, and it does seem the best course of action is separation.

It seems that the relationship does you no harm, if she's not drunkenly weeping on your shoulder, or calling on you when she's freaking on drugs. If she doesn't borrow money, and she otherwise respects the boundaries of your life, i can't see any reason why you shouldn't continue to tolerate her. Of course, it's a considerable problem if you need a sympathetic ear, and she won't provide it. Have you ever directly addressed the issue?

Miss Law's remarks remind me of a situation i was in. I had a friend whom i had known since he was in high school, and i was still in the army (which meant there were very few years between us--i met him through the brother of someone with whom i had served). Twenty years later, i had gone through the mill (entirely my responsibility) and had finally rid myself of booze, and of all drugs except reefer, which wasn't causing me problems at work and wasn't costing me more than i could afford--although i eventually drifted away from weed, weed people and weed situations. This guy was one of the few people who actually remained a friend when i stopped drinking--if you are heavily involved in alcohol and/or drugs, quitting will teach you just how many of your companions really are friends, and just how many (most of them) are just "drinking buddies." Many people with whom you once "partied" will actually resent you because you quit.

At one point, we even became house mates. But the situation proved impossible. He was a chef, and he would party until early in the morning, bringing home drunken companions, so that they could all do drugs (which all to often meant they smoked my reefer) and continue the party. My music collection was getting trashed, some of my books disappeared--all of which meant that eventually, i had to move almost all of my possessions into my bedroom, and really couldn't live comfortably in the house as a whole. He would be contrite when sober, but when in drink and drugs would just laugh it off if i complained. He would eat up my food as well.

He eventually lost the very good job he had, but employment wasn't a problem--at first--because he was genuinely skilled. But it rather quickly became clear that he had lost that job from the unreliability which resulted from cocaine abuse. It also became clear that he was sinking into the cocaine world, and would listen to no criticism of it. Having seen hundreds of dollars of my reefer smoked up, and my objections ignored, i stopped keeping reefer in the house, except literally under my mattress (i had reason to believe that on one or more occasions, someone had sneaked into my bedroom to get reefer while i slept). Ironically, that particular conflict helped to contribute to me ridding my life of reefer.

I has also seen hundreds of dollars of food which i had purchased eaten up by the drunks at night. Complaining about that did no good, no more than with the reefer--so i stopped paying rent, and would only pay my share of utitlities by the expedient of paying half of the bill directly to the utility company--the bills were in his name, and i began to see new bills which included the total of the old bills plus late charges (not the first time i'd had house mates who attempted to get me to pay for all the utilities by simply not paying their share of the bills, and demanding half of each monthly bill).

He had once been a real friend, with whom i and others could enjoy good times without booze or reefer, and who was involved in his friends' lives. He became increasingly morose and hostile, and if you could get a conversation out of him at all, it was only about him, which usually meant his problems, and his increasingly paranoid allegations about the injustices done him. When i moved out to a place of my own, considering the benefits of privacy to outweigh the costs, i soon learned that he was bad-mouthing me to mutual acquaintances for having "ripped him off" for the unpaid rent and the unpaid portions of the utilities--while he was still "hail fellow well met" to my face.

Increasingly, the only time he was affable was when he was half-drunk and flying on the cocaine, and even then, his conversation was almost entirely about him. Bring up music, and he only wanted to talk about his musical taste and his collection of recordings. Bring up books and he'd dominate the conversation with what he'd read, and show little to no interest in what anyone else had read (i could see he was treating others exactly as he did me). He's very intelligent, he's well-educated, and in the "old days" he'd been a charming and interesting companion.

Finally, i confronted him about the stories he was spreading about me "behind my back." He became hostile, would hear nothing about the justice of the situation, or my expenditures and losses, and flew off into a diatribe about how persecuted he was, and how i was one of the principle offenders. I've not seen him now for a decade--i don't miss what he became, but i do miss the interesting, charming and engaged person he had been so many years ago.

But there is a point at which you do have to cut ties to people who are that self-centered, if it is costing you, either materially or emotionally.

I don't have people like this in my life any more -too draining.

But my much more tolerant friend and I were talking the other day about some of her more taxing friends and Ms. Tolerant said that someone asked her recently "What do you get out of that relationship?". And that's making her reevaluate.

That's a good way to focus it.

If what you get out of the relationship, boomer, is interesting stories and access to a fascinating person -- and that's enough -- then probably worth it to continue. (You said this too, that you have to make that decision.)

I definitely have categories of friends (part of what's weird about Facebook is mashing all those categories together, but that's another story). I'm much more willing to tolerate weird/ interesting but self-absorbed friends if I also have enough (mutually) supportive/ listener friends.

Good morning, Msolga
If you stay on the phone for three hours, listening to a "friend" who is taking advantage of you, are you not an enabler as well as a victim?
Perhaps, because I developed skills for getting lots of work done (as teacher/writer) and still leaving good time for my family and myself, I used to attract people who wanted advice from me on the conduct of their lives. I was glad to try to help (I, as many teachers, have a "fixer" personality), but I always told them that they would have to make profound--and, likely, difficult--changes in order to re-organize their lives. This did not dissuade them from asking me many questions about the minutiae of their lives. Should I do this? What do you think of that? Don't you think I'm improving my attitudes towards X? They would call me at home. They would corner me at lunch. I began to realize that, because I was being polite--and trying to be helpful--time for myself and my family was seriously eroding. One night at dinner, late because I was taking a phone call, my wife casually remarked, "So, how many people are you going to carry?" BINGO! It was suddenly clear that I was not often helping these people; they were, most of them, not really my friends; they were exploiting my good nature and my willingness to listen to their problems; I would have to stop being their enabler, so that they would learn to run their own lives--in other words, grow up. As my wife had cracked this open, I asked her advice for how to disentangle myself without hurting anyone. Big question!
Her advice was simply: SLOWLY. Answer increasingly fewer questions. Gradually, accept fewer calls. Listen for less time on the phone. This approach worked. Within a couple of months, I felt relief from unnecessary weight. Within six months, my time was my family's and my own again. Why had I tangled myself up to begin with? 1) I like to help people, and 2) As a teacher, I liked being asked questions. Most of us like to help others. And, I still do try to help. BUT, the issue needs to be focused and substantial. Then, it's not enabling; it's rather a version of trying to be one's "brother's keeper." (That's merely a useful phrase; I am not conventionally religious).
I don't know whether this post will be any help to others who, although very well-meaning--are being exploited and being enablers, but my wife's wisdom surely worked well for me (us!).

Depends on the person and the participation they expect from a "friend".
Too much drama, too much repeating drama, too much I-need-you-right-this-minute, all crosses the too much line with me.
I can see where it may be entertaining, but for me it's more entertaining from a distance.

K was just telling me about P last night and his latest phone calls. I said that I am so happy he doesn't call me. Hearing about him from K is fine though. You know?

And, yea, the best way to distance yourself from someone that is like this, is to just not be easily available any longer.

(For me a friend is there when I need them as much as I am there when they need me. But we can take care of ourselves too.)

Good post, Miklos! -just saw you up there!

I gotta say that I severed ties with my toxic friend/marketing partner back in August and after over twenty years, I do not miss her. She was completely draining. When we were on a project, she would call me as much as five times a day. I don't miss that at all.

just jumping in.

these have all been really great posts.

set, your post in particular.

Yeah, I don't tolerate the ones who are really needy -- who require something from me aside from listening.

Boomer's friend reminds me of some friends who are just self-absorbed though -- I enjoy hearing from them and getting updates but they don't require anything of me. They just aren't much support if I need it (which I've learned, so I don't go to them if I need it -- have other friends for that).

Thanks, Boss. When i was up close, next to the problem, i didn't have the perspective which came to me later, when we were no longer in touch. Over a period of almost 30 years, he changed, almost 180 degrees, from an outgoing, personable and friendly man with many friends to whom he was a good resource, into a withdrawn, selfish, self-absorbed cocaine addict.

I wonder how many of the people who are being discussed here were once decent friends, but whose life experience turned them ever more inward until they lost the capacity to connect with others.

I watched my "friend" evolve in twenty years from slightly self-absorbed to completely self-absorbed. Time, aging, fear, unhappiness in life choices, i watched all of these things take it's toll on her. But rather than make some changes, she just continued to bitch, moan and make empty threats year after year.

My friend had been a "nerd" in high school, to the extent that in the late 60s, male students were pretty well divided into jocks and nerds. In any student body with hundreds of students, that means most guys will end up in the nerd crowd, even if they're not really "brainiacs." He was very intelligent, and i know he felt lonely outside his family. I didn't know the crowd in his high school, so i never really understood his choice of friends--only one of them could be seen to be of the same "type" as him, sharing the same interests in music, books, etc. The rest weren't really like him at all, although they were mostly loyal to one another, and to him and he to them. That group fragmented just from life choices and events.

He had a plan, and he pursued it diligently. He wanted to be a chef, but he only toyed with the idea after high school. He got a truly nasty factory job, but it paid better than anything he could have gotten in his home town. He didn't live at home, either, he struck out on his own as soon as it was practical. He salted a lot of money away in a private annuity as a retirement fund. After about five or six years, as his circle of friends was breaking up from the centrifugal force of moving out of town to other lives and careers, he made up his mind to pursue his goal of being a chef. The CIA (Culinary Institute of America) relies on chef schools affiliated with existing schools, usually community colleges. There was one such program in the city in which his Aunt and Uncle lived, and he worked diligently, saving money to go to school, and continuing to build up his annuity, and after ten years, 16 years after leaving high school, he moved to that city and enrolled in the course. He quickly found employment with the man who was arguably the best chef in that city, and was rated by other chefs as one of the top five chefs in the country. He's half a drunkard (he'd complete the job if it were not for the Gestapo Chief wife he married), and a horrible exploiter of his employees, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better education in both haute cuisine and la nouvelle cuisine.

What undid my friend was actually his success. In high school and afterward, he'd never been very successful with women. He was both a member of the default nerd crowd, but was rather nerdy in his own right. Being a factory worker who went out to get stoned and drunk most nights didn't help that, either. But when he became a chef (and he was damned good--his dream came from cooking with his mother, an excellent cook herself, since he was a small boy), he suddenly became a center of attention he'd never experienced before. Women were now interested in him as they never had been, he had people who wanted to be his friend precisely because he was so good at what he did and enjoyed a modest local fame. Now people bought him drinks, and invited him into the back room to do lines of coke. His success with women didn't last long, which i suspect was due to the coke. I've only ever done coke a few times, but even those experiences convince me that coke and sex don't speak to one another. And, of course, inevitably he stopped being a really good chef because he became a hopeless coke addict.

I've not heard of him for ten years or so. I really do hope he overcame his problems--he'll always have a good career as a chef if he will just clean up his act.