Foofie wrote:Here is the thought: historically, those that could claim a long ethnic heritage to a piece of land could claim it was their land. Now remembering that this planet has a finite amount of habitable land, with an ever increasing population, that paradigm might be obsolete. To replace it, the world, if it wanted to be truly effective as a civilization, would say only the non-wasteful land dwellers have the moral right to a nation state. So, by those standards, the U.S., western Europe and other "western" and some Asian countries have all the rights to their nationhood. And, there are countries and peoples that do not add to the world's productive civilization, either through agrarian means, commerce or technology to be productive enough to warrant a nation state.
Now, in addition to your persecution complex you add more of your sociopathic supremacism to your rationalizations for Israel's oppression of the Palestinian peoples. You're beyond healing, Foo. Unfortunately, that supremacism is a part of the foundation of the Zionists' ideology and their state's raison d'etre.
Quote:Any land the Zionists got became productive, as opposed to much of the land that had been left fallow.
Preach your tired Zionist propaganda to your knee-jerk Israel supporters. The early Zionists saw things considerably differently from the claptrap you spew.
In a report to Theodor Herzl written prior to the Second Zionist Congress of 1898, Leo Motzkin wrote, "Completely accurate statistics about the number of inhabitants do not presently exist. One must admit that the density of the population does not give the visitor much cause for cheer. In whole stretches throughout the land one constantly comes across large Arab villages, and it is an established fact that the most fertile areas of our country are occupied by Arabs..." (Protocol of the Second Zionist Congress, Pg. 103).
That avaricious Ukrainian referred to Palestine as "our land."
Quote:O.K., let us fast forward past WWI and WWII and we see that this little corner of the world is a good place to put the survivors of the Holocaust, considering WWI eliminated the old owners of Palestine, and the British, as victorious in WWII could engineer the placing of these non-English speaking "displaced people" into this historical place that for Jews seemed to have a nostalgic value in their religion.
The self-delusion is extreme to opine that Palestine was a good place to put Holocaust refugees. The Arabs had already been violently railing against the repressive incursion of the Zionists and their British accomplices since the end of the first world war.
Quote:I believe, in reality, even if the neighboring Arab states did not attack Israel in 1948, it was a set-up from the beginning for the Jews to "not really" have a "homeland," since from day one of the fledgling state, the Arab fecundity was greater than the Jews' fecundity. It would only have been a matter of time when the Arab Israelis outnumbered the Jewish Israelis. So, I believe as Israel saw, in the last 60 years, that many in Europe were quite content in their post-Christain mindset, it was only natural to also see that there was a European distaste by many for anything that smacked of prior religiousity. I believe that is when Israel realized a Zionist state was needed, since the world (unfortunately) did not think like the U.S. and a few other countries, and Jews needed a homeland.
So, because Palestine, in reality, isn't a good place for a Jewish homeland, it's the rest of the world's fault? It was the Zionists that pushed for it in the first place, and they convinced the British Empire to abet them in their arrogation of Palestine.
Quote:What I am saying is Gentile heal thyself, before any claiming that Israel is this or that. If Israel today "is this or that" it is specifically because of the historical and current behavior of the western Gentile, not the Middle Eastern Muslim that makes a Jewish homeland necessary, I believe.
If a Jewish homeland were necessary after the Holocaust, it would have been a homeland specifically for the Ashkenazim in Central and Eastern Europe, their homelands. There is no need for healing for stating the obvious to the oblivious, but maybe a little for attempting it to the obstinate.
Quote:And, just getting back to the paradigm as to who gets to have a nation state, Israel qualifies, based on turning Tel Aviv into a Middle Eastern Los Angeles of sorts, and being quite productive.
Yeah, just getting back to a reiteration of your supremacist vomitus. There is no healing for sociopathic supremacists. There is no healing for Israel. It must be dismantled and replaced with a true democratic, egalitarian and inclusive state.
Quote:What is annoying to me is that some of the people in Gaza can work in Israel, rather than direct their energies to building an economy of their own. What is the matter with the people there, that they are willing to work for Israelis, yet want an independent state?
Many Gazans did work, and continue to want to work in Israel. The problem is Israel's collective punishment of the entire population for the actions of a minority of violent militants.
