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Did we ever really land on the moon?

 
 
Setanta
 
  3  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 03:25 pm
@Gargamel,
Don't be so hasty to condemn others, Garg . . . a lot of people are blissfully unaware of the sun landing, because the mission went in at night.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 03:33 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Lord I remember that time period where the mood was
if we could get to the moon we could do anything
.

No task was beyond our abiltiies.


That is FALSE.
NO ONE SAID THAT.

That 's a lot of BALONEY !

We were realistic; optimistic, but within reason.
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 06:47 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
That was optimistic.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 06:47 pm
@spendius,
Sounds reasonable
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 07:15 pm
If anyone had said
what BILLRM claims,
he 'd have been considered psychotically out-of-touch-with-reality.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 09:15 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
LOL they/we did say that if we could go to the moon we could do X or Y or Z and we was indeed very optimistic as I was a high school/college student at the time.

Come on you guys you need to wait until the people who live through a time period are safety dead before you can start re-writing history of that period.

To be fair to you silly nuts people also begin stating that there was no holocaust when there was still a large number of survivors still around.

Yes we went to the moon as I saw two of those awesome ships leave the ground with my own eyes and hear the sound they created with my own ears and feel the ground shake under my feet. We was very proud and very optimistic as a result.

It was a short but wonderful period to be alive in.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 09:50 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

LOL they/we did say that if we could go to the moon
we could do X or Y or Z and we was indeed very optimistic
as I was a high school/college student at the time.

Come on you guys you need to wait until the people who live
through a time period are safety dead before you can start
re-writing history of that period.


We was very proud and very optimistic as a result.

It was a short but wonderful period to be alive in.

I was in this very same room,
watching the landing on TV in July of 1969.

I made a point of taking the day off from work, for that reason.
It was more than obviously a Historic Occasion,
like watching Christopher Columbus arrive in the New World.
I think I ' m a little older than u r Bill,
and I remember that what u assert is inaccurate.

No one claimed that we coud do anything
because we had gone to the Moon.
Rather people complained that we can go to the Moon,
but we coud NOT do whatever it was that thay were complaining about;
(usually something simpler than travel thru outer space).

It was indeed a very optimistic time
and the optimism qua the Space Program
was not as short-lived as u represent.





David
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 10:13 pm
I have it on good authority that the so-called "moon landing" was filmed at Warner Bros studios for government propaganda purposes.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Thu 18 Dec, 2008 10:31 pm
@msolga,
Listen, honey (not directed at msolga), I landed on the moon during the moon landing. Remember it well, and so did he, decades later, in an enjoyable phone conversation - not salacious, or much, sorry, but just catching up as people.

I can testify.
0 Replies
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 12:41 am
@msolga,
You will notice in the far right hand corner Jerry Lewis walking by. That may have slipped past everyone else but not me! Maybe the moon landing should have opened with that Warner Brothers music they always played before Bugs Bunny.
msolga
 
  1  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 12:46 am
@NickFun,
By Jove, I missed that,too, Nick!

Lucky you were paying attention!

Razz
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 03:43 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

I have it on good authority that the so-called "moon landing"
was filmed at Warner Bros studios for government propaganda purposes.

In a way, that is almost true:
Kennedy was so ASHAMED of his ignoble, cowardly, loathsome n invidious betrayal
of the heroic Anti-communist Cuban Freedom Fighters,
that he sought to DEFLECT the focus of attention:
ergo the Birth of the Space Program 's Trip to the Moon!
(or, at least, vast acceleration thereof)

Hence, it resulted from Kennedy 's negative-propaganda.

I wonder if we d be up there YET,
if the Cuban Freedom Fighters had overthrown the communists without American help.





David
Setanta
 
  1  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 08:13 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Jesus . . . this boy is as stuffed full of **** as the proverbial Christmas goose . . .
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 08:31 am
@OmSigDAVID,
My my this website news groups have more nuts then most nuts stores.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 08:43 am
@BillRM,
If Bill does not sling mud,
he can sling nuts.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 03:10 pm
@Intrepid,
WAY: A manned mission to Mars.

WHY: In all of the long term future scenarios for humanity that I can imagine; that do not involve extinction or the collapse of civilization, mankind will be migrating to outer or inner space.

What I mean by "Outer Space" is, I think, obvious. What I mean by "Inner Space," is a virtual existence that is achieved through the melding of man and machine.

I prefer the scenarios in which we retain as much of our humanity as possible, recognizing that some melding of man and machine in the "Outer Space" scenario is inevitable.

I also think that the longer we attempt to maintain some rough status quo of a civilized existence that is not sustainable we are improving the odds for a dystopic or even non-existent future.

The alternatives don't promise utopia, but, in my view, they offer us better odds.

Notwithstanding the possibility of our reaching a transformative stage through the rapid advancement and confluence of key technologies (what some call Singularity) within the next 30 or 40 years, I feel certain that I will not be around to see the wonders that are possible.

I would like, for reasons of personal pleasure and some comfort that mankind in on the right track to see a manned mission to Mars before I pass.

It is a baby step for mankind, but one hell of a step for a man (or woman of course), and I want to see it.
Setanta
 
  1  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 05:42 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Mars does not have a magnetic field, as does the earth. Among many, one of the things which makes a mission to Mars, or anywhere, difficult, is the necessity to shield the passengers from cosmic radiation. One method is very, very heavy shielding, which at some point has to be lifted out of the mother well (Earth's gravitational field), and which will be a crucial factor in acceleration to cruising speed, and in manoeuvring the vehicle--and god-awful expensive. The other method would be to create an artificial magnetic field around the spacecraft, or within the craft. That would be very, very expensive of energy, and would still involve getting a significantly large amount of material resource out of the mother well. The latter, is however, the most likely scenario, as a great deal of the electronics on board would have to be shielded from cosmic radiation, too, and a compact internal magnetic field would be the most practical method from many points of view.

On "spaceship Earth," we are shielded from the cosmic radiation. Mars has no such shielding. From a practical point of view, the only way to colonize Mars with any significant number of people would be for them to live beneath the surface. One can do that just as well on the Moon, and the resource cost to put large amounts of material and large numbers of people on the Moon would be much less. All the fantasies about terraforming Mars, or any other satellite of the sun, or satellite of one of those satellites, suffers from the same problem--protection from cosmic radiation.

Claims about a future necessity to colonize imposed on us by the sheer numbers of humans are equally silly and ill-considered. When i was a boy, and first old enough to understand the meaning of the idea, i learned that the population of the Earth at that time was approaching two billion people. We were told that the Earth was reaching a saturation point vis-a-vis the exploitation of available resources. We were informed that doom impended without radical action. Now, fifty years later, the population of the Earth is six billion. If the average condition of mankind is no better, it is certainly no worse. Predictions of doom from overpopulation have just not played out as advertised in my lifetime.

But what makes the notion of colonization of other planets/satellites silly and ill-considered is to give realistic consideration to what the material costs would be to make an kind of significant alteration in the planet's population through such a project. Does anyone propose that it would be practical to put two or three billion people in space, with all that they would need for survival, and shielding from cosmic radiation? Anything less than hundreds of millions of people would make no significant dent in the population.

The idea of sending out a few thousand, so as to make a "home away from home" for the race is equally ill-considered. Fewer than two or three thousand (and ten thousand, or tens of thousands would be preferable) would not be sufficient to give goods odds of survival and sufficient genetic diversity. The costs of sending several thousand people into space on a long journey would be astronomical (pun intended). So how practical does anyone propose it would be to ask billions of people to make an enormous sacrifice for many, many years (probably decades) in aid of the future of a few thousand people whom they will never see again, and with whom they will never again communicate?

I haven't even addressed the issue of long-term exposure to "zero-g."

The human race might--only might--be able to colonize other planets/satellites in the cosmos in the very distant future--but don't bet on it. There is too much, especially simple human nature, which would work against it.

The only reasons to go to Mars would have to be human pride, philosophy, "spirituality"--there are no good, pragmatic reasons to do so. If we just want to set up a base in "outer space," the Moon makes much more sense. Neither the Moon, nor Mars, can reasonably be seen as venues for significant colonizing efforts. I do consider such a mission a good idea, but only on the basis of "free research," because such research has always provided unexpected dividends. But it ain't gonna be the Earth's summer house by the lake.

If you think about it--and i have. I suspect that most other people who get that starry-eyed look and dream of cosmic colonization don't.
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 19 Dec, 2008 06:12 pm
@Setanta,
How does the central heating work Set?
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Sat 20 Dec, 2008 05:49 am
@Setanta,
Set makes some good points here.
BillRM
 
  1  
Sat 20 Dec, 2008 05:40 pm
@Intrepid,
No, he did not make any good arguments for not spreading out as far as we can into the solar system.

Population growth seem to decrease when wealth of a society increase. See Europe and Japan with a population growth with a negative numbers for example of this or our own history in the US for that matter.

Moving billions around is not needed to greatly increase our wealth by tapping the resources of the whole solar system and if needed the ability to move billions around in space will come, just as the technology of sea travel did not allow large scale moving of populations until the last two centuries or so.

We are setting on a planet that could kill us in many ways and it would be nice not to have all the human race setting on one small sphere

When Yellowstone super volcano let go, I will be happier for example if we have an off planet population.
 

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