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Throwing Shoes at President Bush

 
 
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 02:40 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:
It is also self-evident that everyone does not agree that Bush has done a bad job as president. He has millions of supporters.


Then again, the mere fact that you and like-minded followers still support Bush does not mean has has not done an abysmal job as president.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 02:45 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

Why? What would that have to do with assessing the correctness of his policies?


You don't think that when your policies are so bad, people are moved to throw things at you; you don't think this is a sign of a problem with one's governance? That random people throw stuff at presidents who are doing a GOOD job?

Cycloptichorn


Yes, random people throw things at people who are doing a good job. It's hardly a poll. I suppose that if FDR had walked through (or used his wheelchair) some bombed out section of Europe in WW2, some people might have vented by attacking him, but it hardly demonstrates that America was in the wrong in WW2.


Can you find evidence that previous presidents, who were doing a good job, have had things thrown at them by angry members of foreign countries?

I don't think random people throw their shoes at people who are doing a good job. I think that generally thrown items are reserved for those who have done a poor job. And it's perfectly appropriate for this case, as Bush has done a downright Shitty job and everybody agrees on this fact, including you, Brandon.

Cycloptichorn

It's self-evident that people in war zones may be angry at people who started the war. It doesn't mean that the war is wrong. There are undoubtedly people who would like to throw things at Obama, and if one actually does so one day, it won't prove that Obama has done wrong.

It is also self-evident that everyone does not agree that Bush has done a bad job as president. He has millions of supporters.


What a joke. He doesn't have millions of supporters. He has practically nobody. There are a lot of party-line Republicans out there but they all detest bush as well.

I ask again: can you find evidence of this ever happening in the past to an American president?

Cycloptichorn

Probably. Lee Harvey Oswald threw a bullet at JFK, and there were assassination attempts on Ford and Reagan, but even if I couldn't, it's absolutely clear that the actions of one man are not an accurate assessment of a president's work while in office.

Also, if Bush doesn't have millions of supporters, then how could he have an approval rating of 25% or so? Doesn't that mean that a quarter of the people ask say that they approve of the job he's doing?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 02:48 pm


The like-minded followers that elected Obama are the scary ones...
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 02:54 pm
@old europe,
old europe wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
It is also self-evident that everyone does not agree that Bush has done a bad job as president. He has millions of supporters.


Then again, the mere fact that you and like-minded followers still support Bush does not mean has has not done an abysmal job as president.


My guess is they don't.

They just won't back down in public.

Even Bush has expressed regret re Iraq.....I bet this lot won't...publicly.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 03:19 pm
The reporter said, in so many words, that the shoes were a farewell gift for the death and sorrow Bush visited on Iraq. He also said that the shoes were from the widows and children of those murdered by Bush.

The fact of the matter is that the reporter was speaking honestly. Bush now says, oops, the invasion was an accident caused by faulty intell. Based on the actions of his Iraq Group, and Cheney's work influencing the findings of the CIA, we know that this is a flat-out lie.

We now hear that people throughout the ME are supporting the reporter. I guess they are not stupid.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 03:22 pm
Bush will probably now say that he looked into the reporter's sole.

Bush seemed to like what he saw, saying that the reporter was merely acting as one who lives in a democracy.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 03:34 pm
There is apparently some cultural significance to "showing the sole of your shoe" in the Arab world.
When the Saddam statue was toppled, the few Iraqi's who were around at the time beat the statue with the soles of their shoes.
Anyone else know more about this?

0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 03:43 pm


Apparently all part of a vast left wing conspiracy.
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 04:06 pm
@H2O MAN,
At times I've been wondering whether you're not part of a vast left wing conspiracy.

But you're not, are you? You're the real thing, right?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 05:32 pm
You might be interested in online responses to the shoe throwing incident on the ABC's (Oz national broadcaster) news site. The issue was open for comment.:

Iraqis demand shoe-thrower's release
Posted 3 hours 11 minutes ago
Updated 2 hours 37 minutes ago


http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200812/r323935_1448647.jpg
Letting fly: Muntadar al-Zaidi throws a shoe at George W Bush (Reuters)

Thousands of demonstrators in Iraq have demanded the release of the journalist who threw his shoes at US President George W Bush at a news conference yesterday. ...<cont>

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/16/2447162.htm
Zippo
 
  0  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 06:01 pm
Foolish Iraqi dude ... he should have thrown a grenade
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 06:05 pm
@Zippo,
... & blown up everyone in the room. Great idea, that.

Neutral
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 06:12 pm
@msolga,
20 dead folks are better than 500, 000 dead Iraqis + US soldiers and dont forget the future deaths of hundreds of thousands from "terrorism"
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 06:14 pm
@Zippo,
Why add 20 more dead to the already horrendous death toll in Iraq ? Neutral
Zippo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 06:21 pm
@msolga,
well, the war criminal Bush (who caused all these deaths) would be dead. Justice at last ? The Iraqi people would celebrate and world wide terrorism would decline. Just like how peace came about in Europe when Hitler was killed.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 06:28 pm
@Zippo,
Sadly, I've gotta go now, zippo ... Wink

But he shoe thrower was a protesting journalist, not a suicide bomber. His reason for throwing his shoes has been explained may times now.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 06:38 pm
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

Probably. Lee Harvey Oswald threw a bullet at JFK, and there were assassination attempts on Ford and Reagan, but even if I couldn't, it's absolutely clear that the actions of one man are not an accurate assessment of a president's work while in office.


They are a reflection, not an assessment. And to compare this to former assassination attempts is asinine, Brandon. It is a very visible signal of a failure of a president, when you have foreign reporters throwing shoes at you, and people are mostly sad that he missed.

Quote:
Also, if Bush doesn't have millions of supporters, then how could he have an approval rating of 25% or so? Doesn't that mean that a quarter of the people ask say that they approve of the job he's doing?


Die-hard Republicans approve of the Republican in office no matter what, if for no other reason then the fact that they consider any Republican to be better than any Democrat. But if you ask those Republicans in person, individually, nearly all of them will express anger or disappointment in Bush.

The idea that anyone thinks he's been 'successful' is a joke, Brandon. You and other long-time Bush supporters were fools for doing so and it's been pretty clearly agreed upon by all that you were mistaken to place your faith in him. These days you're left with nothing better than half-assed excuses for his mistakes and protestations that people thought they were 'doing the right thing.' That's weak sauce.

Cycloptichorn

msolga
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 06:57 pm
@H2O MAN,
Quote:
All Americans should be proud of our president and how he handled this incident.


That's funny! Laughing
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 08:24 pm
Quote:
What was the significance of an Iraqi journalist throwing his shoes at President Bush?

We asked Middle East expert and ARC post doctoral fellow at Melbourne University Benjamin MacQueen:

US President George W Bush came in for some rather harsh treatment yesterday by being pelted with the shoes of Iraqi journalist Muntazer al-Zaidi of Al-Baghdadia television who also labelled the President a "dog".

So what is the significance of this, despite the obvious reticence anyone would have by being hit by a shoe? There are two elements that make the shoe, and hitting someone with a shoe, a particularly significant statement in Arab and Middle Eastern culture. The first has its basis in religion and the second in cultural custom, although the two are inter-related.

Not limited to just Arab Muslim culture, but Middle Eastern religious culture generally (Jewish, Christian and Muslim), reference to someone or assault of someone with a shoe carries symbolic value in terms of Old Testament tradition. For instance, Psalms 60:10 ("Moab is my washpot, over Edom will I cast out my shoe...") reveals that assault with a shoe is a traditional defamatory gesture for one's enemies (Moab and Edom were both enemies of Judah).


source[url]

Brandon,
The fact that thousands of Iraqis protested the arrest of the jailed shoe thrower is indicative of many Iraqis supporting the words and actions of the Iraqi journalist despite what the Iraqi government and Iraqi syndicate journalists say.


[quote]Mr Zaidi shouted "this is a goodbye kiss from the Iraqi people, dog," at Mr Bush in a news conference he held with Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki during a farewell visit to Baghdad.[/quote]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/12/16/2447162.htm

It is a pretty safe assumption that they were not in support of Bush or the war.

(something weird is up with computer and doing odd things with my post with the codes and color)


0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2008 10:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

They are a reflection, not an assessment. And to compare this to former assassination attempts is asinine, Brandon. It is a very visible signal of a failure of a president, when you have foreign reporters throwing shoes at you, and people are mostly sad that he missed.
Cycloptichorn



Who is sad, the wildeyed lefties? I understand fellow Iraqis were mostly embarrassed over it, so I guess there are whackos in Iraq, just like there are here.

I am proud of my president, George Bush, and I don't blame him for looking forward to returning to Texas. One wonders how Lord Obama would react if a shoe was thrown at him?
 

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