38
   

Illinois Governor Arrested

 
 
cjhsa
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 09:58 am
Obama is part of the Chicagoland Democrime Machine. As I said before, the Acorns don't fall far from the tree.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 09:59 am
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat wrote:

I don't know if he was lying or not.

You have a funny way of expressing it.

CoastalRat wrote:
So why would Obama lie about that?
maporsche
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:01 am
@BillRM,
With that particular statement I'm not just talking about this most current issue, but throughout the campaign and issues that have come up since then (public campaign finance, postponing the tax breaks for middle class, reversing position on raising taxes on people making over 150-250k, softening his timeline on Iraq, and more). I've been seeing a lot of excuses being made "to protect Obama's image" maybe. The Obama supporters now sound A LOT like the Bush supporters, and vice versa.

Again, maybe this is how it's always been and how it will always be. My experience in politics has been during the entire Bush administration, so that is what I have to gauge this against.

And I did vote for Obama; started a whole thread about it http://able2know.org/topic/124103-1. I even went to the Obama rally in Grant Park on election night.

Bi-Polar Bear
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:01 am
Here's what I hope. I hope Obama was involved and that he lies and covers it up. I hope that it's a given, but no one can prove it, nothing will come of it and he goes about his business.

That way cj and others like him can suffer the same gut wrenching outrage anger and misery, the feelings of helplessness and alienation that the rest of us have suffered at the hands of bushco over the last 8 years. Very Happy

CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:02 am
@JPB,
Quote:
Axelrod said he "knew" they had spoken. Now he's recanted.


Yeah, and you know as well as I that had this been a Bush spokesperson the democrats here would be all over this as proof that someone was lying to cover up something.

For the record, I don't think Obama did anything wrong here. Even if he did speak to the governor about his replacement I don't see a problem. But someone is not being honest here. It just strikes me as being politics as usual from the guy who won the White House running as the candidate of change. Guess we might get less change than we thought.
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:04 am
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
CoastalRat wrote:
So why would Obama lie about that?


I should have clarified by adding "assuming he lied."

0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:07 am
@CoastalRat,
CoastalRat wrote:
But someone is not being honest here.


This is the leap I'm not making. You never saw me making similar leaps against the current administration either.

Axelrod "knew" they had spoken. Now he says he didn't know what he thought he knew. Why is that necessarily dishonest?
cjhsa
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:08 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
Dude, you suffer from those problems every day, no matter who is president. And the worst thing is, ya' can't fix stupid.
CoastalRat
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:11 am
@JPB,
When I say I know something is a fact, then you can bet your bottom dollar that it is a fact. If Axelrod didn't "know" something, why would he say he did? I guess maybe he is just stupid, in which case Obama should get rid of him and find someone who won't say they know something that they do not know.

I really couldn't care less about any of this because Obama did nothing wrong one way or the other. This is all a big tadoo about nothing.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:11 am
@cjhsa,
I'm enjoying watching you implode.
cjhsa
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:13 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
Stinking ******* hippy. Just wait, I hear Obama plans to ban cross dressing, your act is finished.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:16 am
Besides, I'm not imploding, I'm exploding with PURE UNADULTERATED JOY over this Blago ****.... Obama is involved - just wait and see!!! Very Happy Very Happy
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:33 am
A wonderful twist - in order to get released, this anti-private-gun-ownership boob had to forfeit his IL FOID card!!! ROTFLMAO!!!!!
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:41 am
@maporsche,
The gentleman is not even in office and will not be for what 40 days or so and yet you are claiming already he will not do his best to follow the positions he had taken!

Situations do change such as the melt down of our economic but I see nothing so far to indicate that on the whole he is anything but a man of his word.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:43 am
Quote:
Obama’s Effort on Ethics Bill Had Role in Governor’s Fall
(By MIKE McINTIRE and JEFF ZELENY, The New York Times, December 10, 2008)

In a sequence of events that neatly captures the contradictions of Barack Obama’s rise through Illinois politics, a phone call he made three months ago to urge passage of a state ethics bill indirectly contributed to the downfall of a fellow Democrat he twice supported, Gov. Rod R. Blagojevich.

Mr. Obama placed the call to his political mentor, Emil Jones Jr., president of the Illinois Senate. Mr. Jones was a critic of the legislation, which sought to curb the influence of money in politics, as was Mr. Blagojevich, who had vetoed it. But after the call from Mr. Obama, the Senate overrode the veto, prompting the governor to press state contractors for campaign contributions before the law’s restrictions could take effect on Jan. 1, prosecutors say.

Tipped off to Mr. Blagojevich’s efforts, federal agents obtained wiretaps for his phones and eventually overheard what they say was scheming by the governor to profit from his appointment of a successor to the United States Senate seat being vacated by President-elect Obama. One official whose name has long been mentioned in Chicago political circles as a potential successor is Mr. Jones, a machine politician who was viewed as a roadblock to ethics reform but is friendly with Mr. Obama.

Beyond the irony of its outcome, Mr. Obama’s unusual decision to inject himself into a statewide issue during the height of his presidential campaign was a reminder that despite his historic ascendancy to the White House, he has never quite escaped the murky and insular world of Illinois politics. It is a world he has long navigated, to the consternation of his critics, by engaging in a kind of realpolitik, Chicago-style, which allowed him to draw strength from his relationships with important players without becoming compromised by their many weaknesses.

By the time Mr. Obama intervened on the ethics measure, his relationship with Mr. Blagojevich, always defined more by political proximity than by personal chemistry, had cooled as the governor became increasingly engulfed in legal troubles. There is nothing in the criminal complaint unsealed Tuesday to indicate that Mr. Obama knew anything about plans to seek money and favors in exchange for his Senate seat; he has never been implicated in any other “pay to play” cases that have emerged from the long-running investigation of the Blagojevich administration.

But like those previous cases, this latest one features political characters who figure in various stages of Mr. Obama’s climb from little-known state senator to presidential candidate, and who have since become politically radioactive because of corruption scandals. Some of those relationships posed a threat to Mr. Obama during the presidential campaign, forcing him to return tens of thousands of dollars in tainted campaign contributions and providing fodder for attack ads by rival candidates.

Though extreme examples, they were emblematic of the path cut by Mr. Obama through Chicago politics, where he became known for making alliances of convenience with personalities that seemed antithetical to his self-image as a progressive reformer. His political roots were in the left-leaning neighborhood of Hyde Park, but at key moments in his career he did not hesitate to form relationships with politicians who were fixtures of the Democratic machine.

When he ran for the United States Senate in 2004, he aggressively courted Mr. Jones, a sewer inspector turned legislator who had clawed his way up through ward politics and was viewed as something of a kingmaker in the Illinois Democratic Party. He also formed a good working relationship with Mayor Richard M. Daley of Chicago, a symbol of establishment politics with whom Mr. Obama had never been close.

Mr. Obama was an adviser to Mr. Blagojevich’s first campaign for governor, in 2002, and endorsed him again in 2006, even though by that time questions had been raised about the possible selling of state jobs. Mr. Obama has also credited one of Mr. Blagojevich’s closest confidants, Antoin Rezko, a businessman who was convicted of corruption charges this year, with helping him get his own start in politics.

Mr. Rezko was among the first to contribute to Mr. Obama’s earliest State Senate race, in 1995, and later became a major fund-raiser for his campaign for the United States Senate. Mr. Rezko was known around Chicago as a collector of politicians, and he did not hesitate to make the most of his high-level contacts. The New York Times reported last year that when he was entertaining Middle Eastern financiers at a Four Seasons hotel in Chicago, he arranged for Mr. Blagojevich and Mr. Obama to drop by, separately and on different occasions, to impress his guests.

Mr. Rezko derived his political influence mainly from his close relationship with Mr. Blagojevich, who relied on him to recommend loyal campaign contributors for state appointments to boards and commissions, according to the complaint unsealed on Tuesday. But as Mr. Rezko’s legal troubles escalated, Illinois politicians who had previously found him useful, including Mr. Obama, disavowed him and started returning his campaign donations.

Mr. Obama’s relationship with Mr. Blagojevich was not much better when he made the decision to call Mr. Jones in September about the stalled ethics bill. For Mr. Obama, the move marked an unusual return to Illinois politics, turf from which he had studiously worked to distance himself throughout the presidential race. At the time, one week before the first presidential debate of the general election campaign, Republicans were trying to tarnish him in the eyes of voters by attempting to link him to Chicago’s history of corrupt politics.

Mr. Obama used leverage that he had seldom employed " publicly, anyway " and strongly urged Mr. Jones to bypass Mr. Blagojevich and approve the ethics bill, banning the so-called pay-for-play system of influence peddling in Illinois. When asked at the time how Mr. Obama had come to be involved, Mr. Jones replied, “He’s a friend.”

When the Illinois Senate passed the measure by 55 to 0 on Sept. 22, with Mr. Jones reversing his position, Mr. Obama praised the move as one creating “a tougher ethics law that will reduce the influence of money over our state’s political process.” Mr. Obama’s intervention deepened a rift between him and Mr. Blagojevich that had been growing for some time.

When Mr. Blagojevich left Congress in 2002, he talked openly about the notion of running for president one day. After he was elected governor, and after Senator John Kerry lost the presidential race in 2004, he began eyeing a potential run in 2008.

It was short-lived. The federal corruption investigation that eventually led to Mr. Rezko’s indictment, and Tuesday’s charges against Mr. Blagojevich, had already begun to taint the governor’s administration. And by 2006, Mr. Obama had eclipsed the governor as a plausible national candidate, dashing his presidential aspirations.

The criminal complaint unsealed Tuesday underscored the acrimony between the two men. Recorded telephone calls showed Mr. Blagojevich being far less than respectful when discussing the president-elect and voicing frustration at his inability to advance beyond the governor’s office.

“If I don’t get what I want and I’m not satisfied with it, then I’ll just take the Senate seat myself,” the governor said, according to the criminal complaint. Later, he said the Senate seat was a “valuable thing " you just don’t give it away for nothing.”

Meanwhile, Mr. Blagojevich was busily trying to shake loose up to $2.5 million in campaign donations, much of it from contributors with business before the state, according to federal prosecutors. The governor’s goal was to bring in the money before the end of the year, the complaint said, “before a new state ethics law goes into effect on Jan. 1, 2009.”
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:45 am
@revel,
revel wrote:

Quote:
Who said he had conversations? It was widely reported that he thought Jarrett would be a good choice. Does that mean that he and the gov had a chat?

Axelrod said he "knew" they had spoken.


You answered your own question, but on the whole I agree except if it turns out that Axelord is lying now rather than mispeaking before. He would be really stupid to lie now that Blagojevich has been arrested and there are tapes from the FBI to prove it one way or another.


I think both are possibilities. I think Obama did speak to the governor when he forwarded his resignation as their U.S. Senator. He may also have been asked for recommendations for his replacement and he may have said he'd get back to him and then never did.

So Axelrod is right in saying Obama did speak to the governor and Obama is right in saying he had no conversations about his replacement.

0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:46 am
@BillRM,
Well, he's making many of these statements (or his staff is).
0 Replies
 
Merry Andrew
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 10:56 am
Excuse me, but is there some ethics rule that a Senator resigning his/her seat may not make a recommendation as to his/her replacement to the governor? I've never heard of this. Whether or not Axelrod is lying now or was lying then, whether he has a faulty memory or simply misspoke, I think are meaningless speculation. What difference does it make? There is absolutely no whiff of gunpowder, let alone a smoking gun, that would point to Obama in any way. What? He said to the governor, "By the way, I think X would be a good choice to replace me," So what ?
maporsche
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 11:18 am
@Merry Andrew,
I'm not saying there is something to hide MA. But when there's a 'cover up' typically there is more to the story than we're hearing.

And as someone said, this smells like a cover up.


What kind of concerns me is that Blago said that Obama wasn't going to offer him anything for 'Candidate 4' but his gratitude. That means that Obama's camp knew that Blago was doing this pay to play deal and they didn't want anything to do with it. But they knew about it; I hope we get to find out that they were the ones who informed the FBI and not someone else. If Obama's camp knew about it and chose to do nothing then that's pretty dishonest itself isn't it? And is this maybe why Axelrod 'misspoke' about them talking about it? And it's been reported that Blago has been doing this for years. How much has Obama known about, and what did he do to stop it?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2008 11:36 am
@Merry Andrew,
Merry Andrew wrote:

I'm still trying to figure out what, exactly, Okie's lengthy cut-and-pastes are supposed to convey to the reader. There are innuendos here and snide hints that there's more here than meets the eye. But that's all. I don't see a single thing that somehow points a finger at Obama, accusing him of anything illegal or immoral. Not one thing. It's all <wink, wink> <nudge, nudge> by someone who's still obsessed about a 'darky' being in the Oval Office this long after the election.

Just a hint to you if you haven't figured them out, Merry, and I don't think they were very lengthy. They contained some pretty big contradictions by Obama and others in regard to whether they did talk or did not talk to the governor, Merry, so that makes people curious, thats all. Apparently you have none?
 

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