38
   

Illinois Governor Arrested

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:12 pm
@cicerone imposter,
These are not facts?

1) Obama is a product of the Chicago Democratic Machine. So are Blegojevich and Rahm Emanuel

2) Obama very strongly supported Blegojevich in his bid for the Governor's mansion, and he appointed Rahm Emanuel to his Chief of Staff

3) David Axlerod, Obama's chief political strategist, stateD before the scandal broke, that Obama definitely was in contact with Blego about the open senate seat.

4) After the scandal broke, Obama asserted he was never in contact with Blego on the matter.

5) After Obama declared, Axlerod recanted.

You're getting desperate.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
http://www.sjuhawknews.com/home/index.cfm?event=displayArticlePrinterFriendly&uStory_id=e9d23575-373e-43d8-8f4a-cc84b23ce535
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This a foolish dodge, as I've come to expect from you.

Assuming these statistics are correct, and I don't necessarily contend they are not, indicating that moral values are important to one's vote is hardly a declaration of moral superiority.

It also says nothing about Republican politicians.

Still and all, it is telling that you continue to avoid the question of how corrupt Democrats are not hypocritical.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Uhhh...and this links means?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:20 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Do you understand the English language?

It's a criticism of the media hunting for wrong done by Obama when Patrick Fitzgerald already said there is no Obama connection to the IL gov concerning the buying or selling of his senate seat. Those are facts, not something I dreamed up like you are prone to do.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:37 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
1) Obama is not a product of the Chicago Democratic machine. Blegojevich and Rahm Emanuel are.

2) Obama gave lukewarm support to Blegojevich in his bid for reelection -- Blegojevich never supported Obama's Senate campaign. They did not admire each other. Obama's penchant for giving lukewarm support to party regulars that don't deserve such support bothers me a great deal.

3)Axelrod stated he "knew" they had spoken. Take that as a synonym for definitely if you want to. What Axelrod stated he knew and definite fact may not be the same thing.

4) True

5) True

You're stretching the facts.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:39 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Turns out I didn't need an English lesson just some instruction as to the omniscience of CI.

You know that there is absolutely nothing worth pursuing, by the press, in this matter, and therefore they should stop.

It's funny how you were so less inclined to come to such a hasty conclusion when the subject of scrutiny was Bush.

BTW - You are still avoiding my question: Why isn't a corrupt Democrat a hypocrite?

0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Long before federal prosecutors charged Blagojevich with bribery this week, Obama had worked to distance himself from his home-state governor. The two men have not talked for more than a year, colleagues said, save for a requisite handshake at a funeral or public event. Blagojevich rarely campaigned for Obama and never stumped with him. The governor arrived late at the Democratic convention and skipped Obama's victory-night celebration at Chicago's Grant Park.

Even though they often occupied the same political space -- two young lawyers in Chicago, two power brokers in Springfield, two ambitious men who coveted the presidency -- Obama and Blagojevich never warmed to each other, Illinois politicians said. They sometimes used each other to propel their own careers but privately acted like rivals. Blagojevich considered Obama naive and pretentious and dismissed his success as "good luck." Obama disparaged Blagojevich for what he viewed as his combativeness, his disorganization and his habit of arriving at official events half an hour late. source


more...

Quote:
Even though they both began their careers in Chicago, Blagojevich and Obama operated on distinct tracks. Blagojevich, the son of a steelworker who was born in Serbia, grew up on the city's predominantly white North Side and rode a pair of buses with his mother to his first Chicago Cubs game. He married the daughter of a gritty, deal-making alderman and entered politics as an unapologetic product -- and representative -- of the Chicago Democratic machine. He drew support from the city's white middle class and was elected to the state legislature in 1992.

Obama, a transplant from Hawaii and New York City, moved into the progressive, integrated Hyde Park neighborhood and attended White Sox games on the South Side. In his campaign for state Senate, he cast himself as the righteous alternative to what he called "old-school politics" and pitched his case to a coalition of African Americans and Hyde Park's liberal upper class.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2008 11:48 pm
@JPB,
and...

Quote:
Obama and Blagojevich rarely interacted until Blagojevich ran for governor. Obama told his friends in Springfield that he was unimpressed by Blagojevich's résumé, and he tried to lobby his friend Durbin to enter the race before deciding to support Roland Burris in the Democratic primary.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 12:02 am
@JPB,
Not at all

How can you contend that Obama is not a product of the Chicago Democratic Machine? Do you mean to suggest that someone can rise to the political level Obama rose to in Chicago and Illinois without being a favored son of the Machine?

This doesn't necessarily mean that he shares each and every flaw with the worst the Machine has produced, but it is naive to suggest he was able to rise in Illinois politics without the favor of the Machine, and ignorant to suggest he did so in opposition to the Machine.

I just saw a clip of an interview between Obama and Jeff Berkowitz. The endorsement was anything but "luke-warm."



The precise quote was

Quote:
"I know he's talked to the governor, and there are a whole range of names, many of which have surfaced, and I think he has a fondness for a lot of them."


That's not "I believe," "I think," "I understand," "I've been informed" it's "I know."

If you discern something less than definite in the statement, so be it.

The facts are as I have stated them.

As I have repeatedly stated, these facts prove nothing as respects any untoward involvement by Obama in this scandal. They do, however, justify the media's continued interest in and pursuit of the story.

One of the reason that human beings have been so successful a species is their ability for pattern recognition.

Obama never heard Wright's racist, anti-american screeds, he had no reason to know that Bill Ayers was a terrorist, he didn't know Rezko was a crook, and he had no idea that Blegojevich was corrupt.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 12:08 am
@JPB,
Did I contend that they were cronies?

Quote:
Obama disparaged Blagojevich for what he viewed as his combativeness, his disorganization and his habit of arriving at official events half an hour late.


But not his corrupt nature.

Quote:
He married the daughter of a gritty, deal-making alderman and entered politics as an unapologetic product -- and representative -- of the Chicago Democratic machine.


Which somehow means that Obama was not a product of the Machine?

BTW - What are the sources for these quotes? It can make a difference, you know.

JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 12:09 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
What political level did Obama rise to in Chicago? The pinnacle of Chicago politics is to become an alderman -- the alderpukes are the source of the power of the machine. Obama was elected to the IL Senate by the folks of Hyde Park -- not exactly part of the base of the machine.

Are you suggesting that the Chicago dems "allowed" him to be elected to the IL Senate and therefore he's one of them? If so, you don't know what you're talking about.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 12:11 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

BTW - What are the sources for these quotes? It can make a difference, you know.


It's pasted as "source" at the end of the first quote above. Here it is again.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/11/AR2008121103936_2.html?hpid=topnews&sid=ST2008121201821&s_pos=
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 12:25 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn, Your inability to separate Obama from the IL gov shows your myopia about the "different" political paths each took to arrive at where they are today. All you have offered are innuendos and connections that never existed. It's because you don't understand the English language. You have the inability to read anything without inserting your own bias into them. It's obvious to most of us reading your posts.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 01:04 am
@JPB,
Quote:
Are you suggesting that the Chicago dems "allowed" him to be elected to the IL Senate and therefore he's one of them? If so, you don't know what you're talking about.


I am suggesting that if the Machine did not want him to rise in power in Illinois he would not have.

You insist on some black and white interpretation of this scenario.

What is "one of them?"

Are you contending that the Machine is pure corruption?

He need not be a product of the Machine and be a Blagojevich.

There are no Mr Smith's going to Washington. Mr. Smith doesn't make it to the US Senate without the help of a entrenched political network. It doesn't make today's Mr Smith's utterly corrupt, but it does mean that any intelligent assessment of their situation will include political ties and debts.

You can decide as you will as to who knows what they are talking about, but, frankly, I have more faith in me than you.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 01:05 am
@cicerone imposter,
Blah blah blah.

You are tiresome.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 08:35 am
Rahm, Rahm, Rahm

Was shooting his mouth off again.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-rahm-obama13dec13,0,3359611.story


Quote:
Obama said Thursday he had never spoken to Blagojevich about the Senate vacancy and was "confident that no representatives" of his had engaged in any dealmaking over the seat with the governor or his team. He also pledged Thursday that in the "next few days" he would explain what contacts his staff may have had with the governor's office about the Senate vacancy.


So that appears to be accurate.

Now we get to hear about Rahm's flapping lips again.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 08:51 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
BTW - What are the sources for these quotes? It can make a difference, you know.


The washington post

source
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 08:59 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
From the same source as above it explains how Obama rose in power in Chicago without getting to involved with the governor.

Quote:
But Obama and Blagojevich shared pieces of the Chicago political network, which is why this has been an uncomfortable week for Obama's presidential transition team. Senior adviser David Axelrod once advised Blagojevich. Antoin "Tony" Rezko, a developer who was convicted in June of fraud and money laundering, raised money for both men. Robert Blackwell Jr., a longtime Obama friend, served on Blagojevich's gubernatorial transition team. Blagojevich appointed one of Obama's closest confidants, Eric Whitaker, as director of the Illinois Department of Public Health.

The president-elect's connection to Blagojevich is emblematic of his political rise in Chicago. Obama had contact with corruption, but rarely firsthand. He relied on the establishment when he needed it, but he maintained enough distance to cast himself as an outsider.

"Few people I've ever known have as good a sense about who might end up getting you in trouble," said Denny Jacobs, a retired Illinois politician from East Moline who befriended Obama when they both served in the state Senate. "It's like a sixth sense. Chicago's a mess, and he was surrounded by it. But he knew the people that could drag you down and tarnish your image."

Even though they both began their careers in Chicago, Blagojevich and Obama operated on distinct tracks. Blagojevich, the son of a steelworker who was born in Serbia, grew up on the city's predominantly white North Side and rode a pair of buses with his mother to his first Chicago Cubs game. He married the daughter of a gritty, deal-making alderman and entered politics as an unapologetic product -- and representative -- of the Chicago Democratic machine. He drew support from the city's white middle class and was elected to the state legislature in 1992.

Obama, a transplant from Hawaii and New York City, moved into the progressive, integrated Hyde Park neighborhood and attended White Sox games on the South Side. In his campaign for state Senate, he cast himself as the righteous alternative to what he called "old-school politics" and pitched his case to a coalition of African Americans and Hyde Park's liberal upper class.

Obama and Blagojevich rarely interacted until Blagojevich ran for governor. Obama told his friends in Springfield that he was unimpressed by Blagojevich's résumé, and he tried to lobby his friend Durbin to enter the race before deciding to support Roland Burris in the Democratic primary.

"When Blagojevich beat me, I told Barack to get on board with him," Burris said. "It was kind of like swallowing his pride a little bit, because he didn't really see that they had anything in common."


There are more details which explain the relationship and Obama's role in Chicago's political circles if you bother to read it but I understand if you have your mind made up.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 13 Dec, 2008 09:01 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
There are no Mr Smith's going to Washington. Mr. Smith doesn't make it to the US Senate without the help of a entrenched political network. It doesn't make today's Mr Smith's utterly corrupt, but it does mean that any intelligent assessment of their situation will include political ties and debts.


Don't know about MR Smigh... but MRS Smigh (Sarah Palin) did what you're saying can't be done here, i.e. walked into a corrupt situation, took on the corrupters and beat them. Oinky of course, as you say, walked into the scene of corruption with a camo suit on and just sort of blended in for 20+ years.

Big difference.


0 Replies
 
 

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