Let GM go Bankrupt

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I agree that the money won't save them either; they should instead be taken over by the gov't and united into one, with a re-focusing on efficiency. Forget the share and bondholders, they're already screwed anyways.

Cycloptichorn

This is where you lose me (ok, not the only place you lose me Wink

).

Our government does not need to be in the business of taking over, bailing out, etc our private companies.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I agree that the money won't save them either; they should instead be taken over by the gov't and united into one, with a re-focusing on efficiency. Forget the share and bondholders, they're already screwed anyways.

Cycloptichorn

This is where you lose me (ok, not the only place you lose me ).

Our government does not need to be in the business of taking over, bailing out, etc our private companies.

Well heck they aren't in the business of bailing them out either. Why is this any worse?

Let us agree that something unorthodox has to be done, and go from there. I think that restructuring these dinosaurs would be a hell of a lot more effective use of our monies than just giving it to them and allowing the current idiot managers to stay in business there.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

maporsche wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I agree that the money won't save them either; they should instead be taken over by the gov't and united into one, with a re-focusing on efficiency. Forget the share and bondholders, they're already screwed anyways.

Cycloptichorn

This is where you lose me (ok, not the only place you lose me ).

Our government does not need to be in the business of taking over, bailing out, etc our private companies.

Well heck they aren't in the business of bailing them out either. Why is this any worse?

Let us agree that something unorthodox has to be done, and go from there. I think that restructuring these dinosaurs would be a hell of a lot more effective use of our monies than just giving it to them and allowing the current idiot managers to stay in business there.

Cycloptichorn

It's not any worse. I said in my post that I don't think we need to be taking over, bailing out, etc any private company.

I don't agree that something unorthodox needs to be done either. These businesses should file bankruptcy like any other business in their situation would do.

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

they should instead be taken over by the gov't and united into one, with a re-focusing on efficiency. Forget the share and bondholders, they're already screwed anyways.

Are you insane? Are you actually advocating the United States nationalize the Auto Industry? How can you possibly justify taking money from people who earn $10 an hour to subsidize people who earn $50?

If the United States is to bail out these incredibly incompetent manufacturers; then everyone responsible for the collapse should go. That includes the union and management because it is their collective failures that have bankrupted the companies.

3 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

These businesses should file bankruptcy like any other business in their situation would do.

+1

The Airlines did it and they survived.

Other large companies have done it and they survived.

Make no mistake that we are talking about a UWA payoff and not a big three bailout.

1 Reply

@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
they should instead be taken over by the gov't and united into one, with a re-focusing on efficiency. Forget the share and bondholders, they're already screwed anyways.
Are you insane? Are you actually advocating the United States nationalize the Auto Industry? How can you possibly justify taking money from people who earn $10 an hour to subsidize people who earn $50?

If the United States is to bail out these incredibly incompetent manufacturers; then everyone responsible for the collapse should go. That includes the union and management because it is their collective failures that have bankrupted the companies.

Because I'm part socialist, Bill, that's why Laughing

I don't have a problem with what you propose, tho. I would have a problem with them giving the money but not requiring restructuring. That's what they are going to do, though.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

If the United States is to bail out these incredibly incompetent manufacturers; then everyone responsible for the collapse should go.

Like the stupid muthafuckas flying in on private jets today. Shocked

I would've fired those two right on the spot. Talk about 'just not getting it'?

0 Replies

@Cycloptichorn,

I was hoping you weren't married to that thought, because that is borrowing entirely too much from socialism.

EOE, Yes.

1 Reply

@OCCOM BILL,

Not two but THREE stupid mf's. Three flew in, ALL on private jets. Just living in another world. And then, how about Mr. I-won't-take-a-paycut-I'm happy-with-the-way-things-are?
I'd fire his ass too.

1 Reply

@eoe,

Lord, we are insane here we gave AIG 100 billion dollars without blinking and yet we are all for watching the manufacturing heart of this country go belly up over 25 billions?

Trillions of dollars of wealth had disappear in the last few days as the stock market told another dive over the congress not bailing out the not so big 3. How are you guys 401 doing lately?

I frankly don’t care if the auto CEOs arrived in Washington on private jets or flying saucers or broomsticks and I am sure that the AIG management, who after receiving their 100 billions throw a 400,000 party, are not flying spirit airline either.

Come on people do you wish us to turn over all the world manufacturing capability to Japan and China?

2 Replies

@H2O MAN,

Lord I can only hope that China will give us a good deal in manufacturing our heavy military hardware.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Is Ford producing our tanks now? You know something I don't?

"The Bunker Buster XY123, brought to you by Buick"

Don't be a moron.

0 Replies

@BillRM,

Who wasn't blinking about the AIG deal. I don't see anyone saying that AIG was a good thing, but big 3, no way.

And, maybe you haven't been paying attention. Chapter 11 bankruptcy will not dissolve these companies, it will not eliminate the factories, it WILL eliminate the unmanageable debt and contracts that is causing these companies to be unprofitable.

Nothing will happen to our manufacturing capabilities.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

I absolutely back a bailout but only with a knife to their throats to build a more responsible product and yes, I believe some heads should roll and I'd start at the top, with Wednesday's private jetters.

2 Replies

@eoe,

What is the next industry you think the government should bail out and then control how they do business?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Nothing will happen top our manufacturing capabilities ?

In this credit market who the hell are going to be loaning them the 25 billions or more needed to keep then going during bankruptcy?

I don't see how they can keep going in bankuruptcy without govenment loans then either. Bankruptcy is not some magic wand as during it you still will need funds from some outside source for you daily operations. In the case of the big three 10s of billions of dollars.

Without government funds somewhere in this whole wonderful process their assets will be sold off in small peices for cents on the dollars and we will indeed loss our manufacture capabilities.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Manufacturing is blue collar. That is a status that the whole thrust of the American psyche has been conditioned to see as failure. So blue collar jobs are exported due to ease of relocation and cheap shipping and you end up with an ever growing middle class which spends its time in dispute with itself using contadictory assertions copied to everyone on the list.

The science threads I visit are full of the argument that 50 million kids have to be taught evolution theory so that they can all study fossils properly.

It's QED after that.

It's over 20 years since Dylan put out Union Sundown. And you all laughed. "It sure was a good idea till greed got in the way."

0 Replies

@eoe,

Quote:

I absolutely back a bailout but only with a knife to their throats to build a more responsible product and yes, I believe some heads should roll and I'd start at the top, with Wednesday's private jetters.

The private jets may seem like a slap in the face, but most of these guys are making $16k to $32k per DAY, so you really don't want them using their time standing around in lines or waiting for takeoff or hailing a cab.

Of course you could argue that they're not doing their jobs anyway and they're salaries are the biggest waste of all. But that points right back to the larger problem of how to save the US Car industry.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

What is the next industry you think the government should bail out and then control how they do business?

Whichever industry screws up to this extent and then begs/demands a bailout, that's who.

1 Reply

@eoe,

Well then you're just crazy.

0 Replies

Let GM go Bankrupt

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