10
   

Boy Scouts/Discrimination

 
 
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:32 pm
Quote:

The only objection I've ever heard about lesbian scout leaders is that there is a tendency to promote the lesbian lifestyle


I don't know whether to laugh... or cry.
littlek
 
  3  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:38 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
It is quite reasonable, however, to assume that pedophiles seeking out young boys are far more likely to be gay than heterosexual. Can we at least agree on that?


This statement continues to conflict with both research and sense. Any stats saying that homosexual pedophilia is more common than heterosexual pedophilia is a misrepresentation. Perhaps the confusion lies in a mis-labeling of data. I think that the term homosexual pedophile means a pedophile who is targeting victims of the same gender. This does not mean (as you seem to admit) that all of those same-gender offenders are gay. I invite you to find credible data to disclaim my stance.
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:39 pm
@ebrown p,
welllll,at least she didn't say agenda.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:45 pm
@littlek,
littlek wrote:

Quote:
It is quite reasonable, however, to assume that pedophiles seeking out young boys are far more likely to be gay than heterosexual. Can we at least agree on that?


This statement continues to conflict with both research and sense. Any stats saying that homosexual pedophilia is more common than heterosexual pedophilia is a misrepresentation. Perhaps the confusion lies in a mis-labeling of data. I think that the term homosexual pedophile means a pedophile who is targeting victims of the same gender. This does not mean (as you seem to admit) that all of those same-gender offenders are gay. I invite you to find credible data to disclaim my stance.


I didn't say that homosexual pedophilia is more common than heterosexual pedophilia. I haven't even remotely suggested that.

My statement was very specificly targeted. Let me restate it as I said it:

Quote:
It is quite reasonable, however, to assume that pedophiles seeking out young boys are far more likely to be gay than heterosexual.


Now do you have any data from any credible source to dispute that?
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:55 pm
Speaking as a parent...

I feel much more comfortable with someone who is in a healthy adult relationship, then someone who is repressing their sexuality and forced to live a lie.

Openly gay men don't scare me. Repressed gay Christians in heterosexual marriages scare the crap out of me.
littlek
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:59 pm
@Foxfyre,
My last post included data for both male and female victims. Here ya go:

Quote:
One manifestation of prejudice has been the allegation that gay men pose a particular danger to children. However, all available research data and clinical experience indicates that gay men are not more likely than heterosexual men to sexually abuse children. A study of children seen for sexual abuse in a one-year period at a Denver children's hospital, for example, found that less than one percent of the identified adult offenders were gay or lesbian. Of the 219 abused girls, only one instance of abuse had been attributed to a lesbian. Of the 50 abused boys, only one instance of abuse had been attributed to a gay man. In contrast, 88 percent of the offenders had documented heterosexual relationships and most were heterosexual partners of a family member (77 percent of those who abused the girls and 74 percent of those who abused the boys).35/

One source of confusion in this area is that many men who sexually abuse boys are not themselves homosexual. Rather, they are attracted, entirely or predominately, to children. These men have never developed a mature sexual orientation, either heterosexual or homosexual.36/ One study of 175 adult males who had been convicted in Massachusetts for sexual assault of a child found that 47 percent were exclusively interested in children, 40 percent were regressed heterosexuals, and 13 percent were regressed bisexuals.37/ None had an exclusively homosexual orientation, and none of those who were bisexual were primarily attracted to men.38/

Assertions to the contrary by Family Research Council and others cannot be considered reliable. These amici seriously mischaracterize research39/ and rely on dubious sources.40/ Their presumption that homosexual men are pedophiles is contrary to the legitimate research in the field, just as any such presumption about heterosexual men would be.41/ http://www.apa.org/psyclaw/boyscout.html
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 05:01 pm
@ebrown p,
Once again, I completely agree with Mr. Brown
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:03 pm
@littlek,
Okay I will consider the data you are providing here, littlek, but it is one study in one hospital with what appears to be a pretty limited study group. I don't know what criteria they used to judge the sexual orientation of the offenders and I don't know what agenda those conducting the study might have had. I think, however, I recall that the APA was one group cited who did oppose the BSA policies.

I know of the four cases that I was personally informed of during a time when I worked for an organization which, among other things, ran a boys' boarding school, two offenders were married but admitted to homosexual tendencies and the two unmarried guys admitted they were gay. Three admitted they applied to the school because it was a boys' school. (The fourth said it just happened--he thought he had licked his problem. Full disclosure was necessary in order for them to qualify for offered therapy.) I don't know what kind of study has been conducted among Catholic priests or among Scout leaders charged with sexual offenses against children. I don't know of a single case where a straight Scout leader or church worker or priest sexually molested a male child.

But as with all things, such things are never as simple as they seem.

I do know that there have been far fewer problems in Scouting and other organizations serving children since new policies have been applied and due diligence in screening adult staff/volunteers has been done.
majikal
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:17 pm
@Foxfyre,
I've posted this before, I'll post it again

Quote:
Using the fixated-regressed distinction, Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation. 83 (47%) were classified as "fixated;" 70 others (40%) were classified as regressed adult heterosexuals; the remaining 22 (13%) were classified as regressed adult bisexuals. Of the last group, Groth and Birnbaum observed that "in their adult relationships they engaged in sex on occasion with men as well as with women. However, in no case did this attraction to men exceed their preference for women....There were no men who were primarily sexually attracted to other adult males..."


Quote:
Other researchers have taken different approaches, but have similarly failed to find a connection between homosexuality and child molestation. Dr. Carole Jenny and her colleagues reviewed 352 medical charts, representing all of the sexually abused children seen in the emergency room or child abuse clinic of a Denver children's hospital during a one-year period (from July 1, 1991 to June 30, 1992). The molester was a gay or lesbian adult in fewer than 1% in which an adult molester could be identified " only 2 of the 269 cases


Quote:
In yet another approach to studying adult sexual attraction to children, some Canadian researchers observed how homosexual and heterosexual adult men responded to slides of males and females of various ages (child, pubescent, and mature adult). All of the research subjects were first screened to ensure that they preferred physically mature sexual partners. In some of the slides shown to subjects, the model was clothed; in others, he or she was nude. The slides were accompanied by audio recordings. The recordings paired with the nude models described an imaginary sexual interaction between the model and the subject. The recordings paired with the pictures of clothed models described the model engaging in neutral activities (e.g., swimming). To measure sexual arousal, changes in the subjects' penis volume were monitored while they watched the slides and listened to the audiotapes. The researchers found that homosexual males responded no more to male children than heterosexual males responded to female children


Quote:
There appears to be practically no reportage of sexual molestation of girls by lesbian adults, and the adult male who sexually molests young boys is not likely to be homosexual


http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html
0 Replies
 
majikal
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:34 pm
@Foxfyre,
and here you go...some more from Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse.

http://www.internationalorder.org/scandal_response.html

Quote:
There are, however, two major problems with these claims which try to link homosexuality with pedophilia. First, the statistical data that has been cited is based upon a serious distortion of reputable scientists’ studies on child molestation. The scientists who authored the studies made no such claim about homosexuals posing a greater threat to children, and in fact in many cases explicitly argued the opposite. These scientists have concluded that pedophilia is a separate orientation from homosexuality and that the vast majority of molesters who target boys have either no interest in mature males or are heterosexual men who are attracted to the feminine characteristics of young boys.


Quote:
(Groth is Nicholas A Groth who has treated over 3000 child molesters over 2 decades and is a pioneer in scientific study of sexual offenders against women and children. He worked (works?) in the Connecticut Correctional Facility and was a chief psychologist at a Massachusetts hospital for diagnosis and treatment of sexually dangerous people.

Quote:
Concludes Groth.....It appears, therefore, that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater sexual risk to underage children than does the adult homosexual male
Quote:
Most of us think that a child molester is a rather slimy individual( a stranger in town, sitting in his car near a schoolyard, luring children with candy. Our findings reveal that, on the contrary, the child molester is not a stranger, but is someone we know well. He often is a man we trust, a man our children trust. . . .
0 Replies
 
majikal
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:37 pm
@ebrown p,
Quote:
Speaking as a parent...

I feel much more comfortable with someone who is in a healthy adult relationship, then someone who is repressing their sexuality and forced to live a lie.

Openly gay men don't scare me. Repressed gay Christians in heterosexual marriages scare the crap out of me.


I am not a parent, but I completely agree.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:37 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre, I think there is a possibility that some men who molest young boys would call themselves homosexual even though they aren't. As the psych articles I've been reading say, pedophilia is generally has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It has to do with a stunted or ruined capacity to form normal adult relationships for what ever reason. Since they are targeting young boys, they call themselves homosexual even though they are really pedophilic. So, in the absence of a heterosexual relationship (or any relationship with an adult) that assume they are homosexual.

Unfortunately it does seem to be true that gay boys are more often victims. Studies I read say this is because they don't have an easy time making connections with their own age groups given the fact that our society is still so unaccepting of their sexuality.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 06:54 pm
@McGentrix,
McWhitey wrote:
So find statistics that prove otherwise.


Why should i? Fox made one of her typical statements from authority, claimed she had give a source, but in fact had not provided anything which supported the statement she made. Time enough for "disproof" at such time as she provides something in the way of proof.

Quote:
I see nothing here beyond the typical bullshit that you guys do to every single post Fox makes and it's still tiresome. If they wish to challenge her statement, it should be pretty easy to do, otherwise, STFU.


Maybe you should shut the f*ck up--first because i am not "you guys," so don't try to tar me with a plural brush, and then because you, just like Fox, are ignoring that she provided no evidence for her claim.

I'm not saying that it isn't true that the BSA banned homosexual scout leaders because " . . . incidents of sexual misconduct by heterosexual family men [were] virtually nil." I've pointed out that the link she provided and the portion of it which she quoted does not support the statement. I'm just saying that we don't know it to be true. Furthermore, i'm pointing out that there is no burden of "disproof" upon others for an unsupported statement, for a statement which is not proven.

That's straightfoward enough that even you should understand it.
0 Replies
 
majikal
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 09:01 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
the incidents of sexual misconduct by heterosexual family men was virtually nil.


You sure about that?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=13205
Quote:
Robert Malcomb, Jr., a former scoutmaster in Oklahoma, pleaded guilty on Friday to 61 charges of having had sex with five boys under the age of 14, as well as multiple counts of rape, forcible oral sodomy, lewd acts with children and bestiality. His wife turned him in after she caught him molesting a 12-year-old boy in their home. Malcomb had been a scout leader since 1992.


http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060709&slug=scoutleader09
Quote:
An assistant Boy Scout leader accused of raping a child who was a family friend has pleaded not guilty. Nick Miller Jr., 59, entered the plea Friday to charges of child rape and child molestation filed in Pierce County Superior Court. Miller was being held on $1 million bail. If he makes bail, Judge John Hickman ordered him to have no contact with children. Miller, who is married and has three children in high school and college, is a retired Gig Harbor businessman and a volunteer firefighter.


http://planetout.com/news/article-print.html?2002/12/02/2
Quote:
A Boy Scout leader in Brevard County, Fla., has been charged with molesting three pre-teens from his Titusville troop.... King, who is married, invited at least five boys to his home on Friday, telling them they were going to build a Christmas float. That evening one of the boy's parents contacted police about King.


http://www.wctv.tv/APNews/headlines/27599209.html
Quote:
Gwinnett County police say 16 people have now accused a former Lawrenceville Cub Scout leader of molestation since his arrest last month. A bond hearing for 44-year-old Harry Brett Taylor is scheduled for next Thursday in Gwinnett County Superior Court. Taylor's attorney, Walt Britt, said earlier his client maintains his innocence. Taylor was a member of the Gwinnett County Public Library Board until he was accused. He is being held at the Gwinnett County Jail without bond. An 8-year-old boy was the first to accuse Taylor of fondling him during a sleepover at Taylor's house. Taylor's wife, Joanne Taylor, has filed for divorce. Gwinnett County Superior Court records show the couple married in March 1991 and have five children.


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B01E1DF153AF933A15754C0A9679C8B63&fta=y
Quote:
A Manhattan Boy Scout troop leader was charged yesterday with molesting a boy in his troop on a regular basis between September 1996 and May 1997...
Prosecutors said yesterday that they had obtained 50 minutes of taped conversations between Mr. Schwartz and the boy in which the two discussed the alleged sexual abuse. The boy, now 20, is being treated for substance abuse in a Florida center, and according to his lawyer, Michael Dowd, suffers from severe depression and sexual dysfunction as a result of his encounters with Mr. Schwartz.....
Mr. Schwartz, neatly dressed in a navy blazer, gray slacks and loafers, was led into court, handcuffed, while his wife, Eileen, sat in the gallery
0 Replies
 
majikal
 
  2  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 09:08 pm
@Thomas,
Quote:
Do the Girl Scouts have a corresponding "no-lesbians" policy? What level of abuse, if any, do they observe?


Keep in mind that they are two very seperate organizations but they do NOT have a no-lesbian policy and are generally regarded as a very liberal organization. They have been known to have Gay/Lesbian youth support projects and have a mentoring program "for lesbian women and girls dealing with sexual identity." Says Kane(spokesperson for the council), "I can only imagine the energy and leadership that would be unleashed " in society " if we spent our time and resources encouraging our girls " and everyone " to be visible, authentic, and bring 100 percent of themselves to all their experiences."

They publicly state that they neither discriminate nor endorse on the basis of sexual orientation.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 09:44 pm
Good, solid work in the research for your last two posts, Majikal.
majikal
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 10:12 pm
@Setanta,
Well thank you Smile
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 10:20 pm
@majikal,
What about picking husbands or wives? Do liberals or the demoKKKrat party have any sort of a problem with people being allowed to choose who to marry?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2008 04:23 am
@ebrown p,
Openly gay men don't scare me
-----------------------------------------
So openly gay NAMBLA members don't scare you in any way or in any manner?

Something is wrong with your logic but it sound nice.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2008 04:29 am
@gungasnake,
Gungasnake I think I am hearing a black helicopter from the UN one world government plot moving in your direction loaded with evil Jewish troops under the command of Obama secret anti-Christ brother.

Good luck.
 

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