@oralloy,
Quote:They'd be wrong. If we'd done a Dresden-style carpetbombing and firestorm, it would have been considerably more violent to the general populace than our attempts to hit specific military targets with precision weapons.
As you have pointed out yourself, the invasion of Iraq is a violation of the United Nations Charter, which we not only signed, but which we furthered as a goal at the end of the Second World War. Therefore, any attacks which we launched, including those which you allege were only carried out with precision weapons against military targets were as illegal as the invasion itself in general. Which means that you'd be wrong.
Allow me to correct that--you
are wrong. Nothing new there.
Quote:US bombers were trying to destroy the Dresden railyards (a legitimate target), and had nothing to do with the firestorm that the UK intentionally started in Dresden.
Since any war crime at Dresden would be related that firestorm, I think it is fair to pin all the blame for any Dresden-related crimes solely on the UK.
Liar, liar, pants on fire. You are such a bullshit artist. One need only look at contemporary maps of Dresden to see that attacking the railway marshalling yards, and using incendiary bombs for the purpose, contributed to the fires which destroyed the city center of Dresden.
Quote:The Eighth Air Force raids against the city’s railway facilities on 14 and 15 February resulted in severe and extensive damage that entirely paralyzed communications. The city’s passenger terminals and major freight stations, warehouses, and storage sheds were, when not totally destroyed, so severely damaged that they were unusable. Roundhouses, railway repair and work shops, coal stations, and other operating facilities, were destroyed, gutted, or severely damaged. The railway bridges over the Elbe river--vital to incoming and outgoing traffic--were rendered unusable and remained closed to traffic for many weeks after the raids.
Quote:The RAF Bomber Command’s are raid on Dresden, conducted on the night of 13/14 February 1945, resulted in fires that did great damage to the city proper, particularly in the older and more densely built up areas. Early official Allied post-strike reports estimated that 85 per cent of the fully built-up city area was destroyed, that the old part of the city, which comprised the greater portion of the built-up areas was largely wiped out, that the majority of buildings in the inner suburbs was gutted, and that in the outer suburbs, few buildings were effected by the area bombing attack. Virtually all major public buildings appeared heavily gutted or severely damaged. Public utilities, and facilities such as slaughter houses, warehouses, and distribution centers, were severely affected. A very large number of the city’s industrial facilities were destroyed or severely damaged, with perhaps a four-fifth’s reduction in the productive capacity of the arms plants. Later British assessments, which were more conservative, concluded that 23 per cent of the city’s industrial buildings were seriously damaged and that 56 per cent of the non-industrial buildings (exclusive of dwellings) had been heavily damaged. Of the total number of dwelling units in the city proper, 78,000 were regarded as demolished, 27,70 temporarily uninhabitable but ultimately repairable, and 64,500 readily repairable from minor damage. This later assessment indicated that 80 per cent of the city’s housing units had undergone some degree of damage and that 50 per cent of the dwellings had been demolished or seriously damaged.
. . . and finally:
Quote:In its 14 February daylight precision attacks on the Dresden Marshalling Yards, the Eighth Air Force employed 316 heavy bombers on the 14th for a tonnage of 487.7 tons of high explosives and 294.3 tons of incendiaries, a combined tonnage of 782 tons, and in its attacks on 15 February it employed 211 heavy bombers and 465.6 tons of high explosives (no incendiaries)--a total of 527 bombers and 1247.6 tons in the two days operations.
The Air Force can dance and sing to its heart's content, it won't alter the fact that their own report concludes that the built-up areas of the city were destroyed by fires, and that the Air Force itself acknowledges that Eight United States Army Air Force dropped 294.3
tons of incendiary bombs on the built up areas of the city. One could make the case that the RAF raid did the lion's share of the damage to non-military targets, but that does not absolve the USAAF of it's responsibility for the effects of having dropped nearly 300 tons of incendiary bombs on the city center of Dresden.
The passages quoted above are found in
HISTORICAL ANALYSIS OF THE 14-15 FEBRUARY 1945
BOMBINGS OF DRESDEN.
Additionally, the Royal Air Force history web page has the following statement:
Quote:"Part of the American Mustang-fighter escort was ordered to strafe traffic on the roads around Dresden to increase the chaos and disruption to the important transportation network in the region."
The RAF history also acknowledges that the RAF did the most serious damage, but no one (other than you) is attempting to claim that the American raids were some kind of clinical operation that did no damage to civilians.
Quote:The Americans bombed Dresden again on the 15th and on 2nd March but it is generally accepted that it was the R.A.F. night raid which caused the most serious damage.
Source at the RAF History webpage.
Alexander McKee has stated that military barracks which were supposedly targeted by the Americans were far outside the city center, and were not in fact targeted. Furthermore, Mr. McKee points out that the "hutted camps" referred to in after-action reports were not in fact military targets, but were refugee housing. Finally, he points out that the bridges over the River Elbe were not targeted, and that the alleged strategic effect of the raids was illusory. (See Alexander McKee,
Dresden 1945: The Devil's Tinderbox, New York, Dutton, 1984.)
I'll take the evidence of the United States Air Force Historical Division, the Royal Air Force history web page, and the work of Mr. McKee over your typical arrogant statements from authority any day.
