10
   

Jobless father KILLS family and self

 
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 03:32 pm
@dlowan,
That wasn't aimed at you Greenwitch, by the way.
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 03:58 pm
@dlowan,
It would be good if the government subsidized free financial/debt/credit counseling to help people who might be frantic due to the economy and high personal debt. Some free mental health counseling would be good too, since most unemployed people have no health insurance.

After 9/11, the government did fund free crisis support counseling services, through Project Liberty, for those affected by the attack on the World Trade Center. Something similar, for those who are in crisis, or homeless, or desperate, due to the current economic situation, might help to avert more tragedies.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:07 pm
@firefly,
Indeed....rural Australia is a good example of attempts (however minor) to use public health principles in reaction to major economic problems.

The bush has been in slow decline for years....and thrown into crisis by a decade of drought and other economic factors.

Rural Oz has always had a much higher rate of suicide than urban areas, and fewer services, and it was feared (and there were tragedies) that this ongoing stress would lead to both death and increased physical and mental ill health. (Rural people already were less healthy than urban people, even before the economic decline.)

The government initiated a system of mobile rural counsellors, and greater child and adolescent mental health in situ services, and better access to adult mental health services, as well as financial advisers.

Little enough, but at least some recognition of the human consequences of economic facts.




0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:26 pm
There has been enough warnings for our government to act on this problem, but I don't see anything being done for those young families with children who are losing their jobs and homes. That's going to translate into increasing tragedies, while our government sits around trying to bail out the banks and finance companies.

Our government doesn't understand main street at all.

Give those young fathers a job through public works projects to work on our infrastructure, and the beginning of our cure will be on the right track.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:28 pm
@dlowan,
I hope I'm not one of those "User ignored (view)"
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 04:30 pm
@maporsche,
Evidently not, because I saw this!
0 Replies
 
OGIONIK
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 06:31 pm
@firefly,
very good idea, but i think a better idea would be to teach economics in highschool,a nd to actually define how the system works.

i for example, believed credit cards worked like this :

-you purchase something for 100 dollars at 10% interest, you get a balance of 110 dollars on your card you pay off, which might i add makes sense.

- it really works on a 10% of your monthly balance, which doesnt make any sense at all, might i add, once i found that out i was like umm ok, then why does anyone get credit cards?

i still do not know. its very disturbing we even issue credit with interest applied that way, its borderline retarded.

OGIONIK
 
  0  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 06:34 pm
@OGIONIK,
actually, its insane, which i could understand why people lose their minds and do stuff like murder. the system doesnt make sense, and most people have a hard time grasping that. leading to desperation, IMO.

think about it.
0 Replies
 
rabel22
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Oct, 2008 06:37 pm
@cicerone imposter,
They understand, they just dont care unless it means money in thier pocket. Homeless families, starving kids, who gives a shyt. Read the back posts of most of the conseratives on this site.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 05:56 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter, Bob Herbert agrees with you


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The New York Times
October 7, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist

A Fool’s Paradise
By BOB HERBERT

With less than a month left until Election Day, there is still time for the presidential candidates to focus with great intensity on what should be the most important issue of this campaign. It’s not just the economy, stupid " it’s jobs.

The stock markets were rocked again on Monday, and the need to stabilize the financial system is obvious. But the U.S. economy is never going to be really healthy until the country figures out how to provide work at decent pay for all, or nearly all, of the men and women who want to work.

We’ve been living for years in a fool’s paradise atop a mountain of debt. The masters of the universe on Wall Street lost all sense of reason, no doubt. But most of us have been living above our means through the magic of easy credit, ever lower taxes, ever rising property values, stock market bubbles and the gift of denial, which we used to assure ourselves that the bills would never come due. We’ve even put our wars on a credit card.

The burden of debt for a typical middle-income family, earning about $45,000 a year, grew by a third in just the few years from 2001 to 2004, according to the Center for American Progress. The reason for this unsustainable added weight was the rising cost of such items as housing, higher education, health care and transportation at a time when wages grew only slightly or not at all.

In other words, work was not enough.

As for the debt burden of the federal government, don’t ask. (But you might want to ask your grandchildren how they plan to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.)

With reality now caving in on us " banks and brokerage houses falling like tenpins, a trillion dollars or so in bailout money being added to the nation’s debt burden, families by the hundreds of thousands being driven from their homes by foreclosures " it might make sense to get back to basics. And in the United States, the basic economic component of a sustainable family life is a good job.

What we haven’t paid close enough attention to for many years (a period in which we’ve been oddly obsessed with the financial lives of the rich and famous) is the fact that there haven’t been enough good paying jobs to sustain what most working Americans view as an adequate standard of living. This is a fundamental flaw in the U.S. economic system.

With the latest financial meltdown, there has been widespread outrage over the excessive compensation of top corporate executives. Where has everybody been? The rich have been running the table for the better part of the past 30 or 40 years.

Example: The after-tax income of the top 1 percent of Americans rose 228 percent from the late 1970s through 2005. The story for working families over that same stretch was one of constant struggle to just stay even. As the Pew Charitable Trusts reported last year: “The earnings of men in their 30s have remained surprisingly flat over the past four decades.”

Disaster was held at bay by the entrance of wives and mothers into the workplace, and by the embrace of colossal amounts of debt for everything from home mortgages, cars, clothing and vacations to food, college tuition and medical expenses.

Now middle-class and working families are up against the wall. With most other options exhausted, the only real way for the vast majority of Americans to continue financing a reasonable quality of life is through the proceeds from employment.

Unfortunately, we’re retreating on that front. Nearly 160,000 jobs were lost in September. More than three-quarters of a million have vanished over the past nine months.

The economy won’t be saved by bailing out Wall Street and waiting for that day that never comes when the benefits trickle down to ordinary Americans. It won’t be saved until we get serious about putting vast numbers of Americans back to work in jobs that are reasonably secure and pay a sustaining wage.

And that won’t begin to happen until we roll up our sleeves and begin the immensely hard and expensive work of rebuilding a nation that unconscionably was allowed to slip into a precipitous state of decline. We’ll end up spending trillions for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and another trillion, at least, to clean up after the madmen on Wall Street.

Now we need to find the money and the will to put Americans to work rebuilding the nation’s deteriorating infrastructure, revitalizing its public school system, creating a new dawn of energy self-sufficiency and rethinking our approach to an economy that remains tilted wildly in favor of the rich.

That’s what the presidential campaign should be about.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 06:04 am
@OGIONIK,
Education re money and the economy is great.

I don't think that that, and efforts to assist with the impact of current circumstances, are an either/or thing, though.
0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 06:07 am
@OGIONIK,
Have you seen the documentary movie, "Maxed Out: Hard Times, Easy Credit and the Era of Predatory Lenders" ?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0762117/

It's very, very good, a real eye-opener. Everyone should see it. It has been running on one of the cable movie channels, that's where I caught it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiOVNWoWTAU
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 11:23 am
@firefly,
Quote:

Ostensibly, according to notes he left behind, the man decided
that it was "more honorable" to kill his entire family than to just
kill himself.

This keeps happening, every once in a while.
Both sexes have committed such murders and suicides.
In 2003, we were at the Mensa Annual Gathering in St. Paul, Minn.
We had a dinner cruise on a Mississippi River Boat, on the 4th of July.
After the dinner, having disembarked, we found that the police
had closed the area to vehicular traffic, because a mother had thrown
her 2 little boys into the River and then jumped in.
One of the boys survived for about a month, in a hospital.
We had to WALK back to our convention hotel; gross.
Sometimes, the victims try to fight back (like Andrea Yates' oldest son),
but thay r usually unarmed n hence unprepared for the job of defense.
The consequence is death,
but fortunately thay are in full and perfect compliance
with ALL gun control laws; that 's the important thing.


Quote:

Are we really to believe this man's twisted noble motives
about being "honorable" when it involves murdering his three children?

I guess so, yeah, if he has committed suicide, in addition to the murders,
and he has explained his motivation.

Who among us will declare that HE knows the decedent 's reasoning
better than the suicide himself did ?
I will not assume that much arrogance.





David
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 02:07 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

I guess I don't post enough anymore for the sarcasm to be recognized in my post about banning guns.


You're not the only one. Serious dropoff here.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 03:01 pm
@SYNRON,
SYNRON wrote:

Why did he kill his mother in law first?


He was a mean guy...
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 03:05 pm
@SYNRON,
SYNRON wrote:

Oh, come on. I never read of anyone being killed before guns were invented...


You ever hear of Cain and Abel?

Cain killed his brother and became the first murderer in history.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Oct, 2008 10:13 pm
@Miller,
U c what happens when the victim is unarmed ?
Miller
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2008 12:51 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

U c what happens when the victim is unarmed ?


I do!
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2008 01:22 am
And the point here is?

A deranged man kills his entire family and then himself.

Considering this is a tragic manifestation of insanity, how is it relevant to anything going on in our world?

Isn't it a bit pathetic for someone to attempt to convert this terrible, and utterly mindless, tragedy to political fodder?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Oct, 2008 01:36 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
And the point here is?

The victims shoud have been armed;
the death penalty applies for failure to be armed.



Quote:
A deranged man kills his entire family and then himself.

It wuda been BETTER if he 'd killed himself and THEN
his entire family.


Quote:
Considering this is a tragic manifestation of insanity,
how is it relevant to anything going on in our world?

It demonstrates the folly of being unarmed n the penalty thereof.


 

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